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Re: “To sprawl or not to sprawl?

Expat wrote: "I'm not dismissing Sierra's concerns about the TSPLOST, only their approach. Rather than work to improve upon what the TSPLOST will deliver, they'd apparently rather work with nothing - because that is exactly what will be added if the ref fails."

Look at the big money that is pushing the referendum - developers, chambers of commerce and other Georgia power brokers. Do you really think they are going to give up if the July 31st referendum fails? No, they are not in it for altruism and they know a cash cow when they see it. They will re-tool the projects list to get the Sierra Club and NAACP on board which means more mass transit. Why? Because they are smart enough to realize the "no new taxes" suburban crowd is not going to vote for it no matter what the projects list looks like.

Posted by Mark from Atlanta on 05/16/2012 at 8:45 PM

Re: “No Screen on the Green this year

I was about to say I wont miss it, given how hard it is to actually watch and hear a movie with all the chattering and wandering going on, but then i remembered how fun it was to watch the elaborate picnic baskets, folding adirondack chairs, wine totes, votive candles, rugs, et cetera sherpa'd in by the yuppies of the city.

Posted by zedsmith on 05/16/2012 at 8:42 PM

Re: “The most terrifying thing is called Aeromonas hydrophila

tell me more about how much you don't obsessively hate me. another four or five paragraphs should drive the point home

I would laugh at that statement if it weren't so pathetic. No, I don't hate you and I mean that sincerely. Besides, how can anyone possibly hate you more than you obviously hate yourself?

Now, go run along and play.

Posted by howdy on 05/16/2012 at 8:27 PM

Re: “Confusion, chaos in the wake of the Starlight Drive-In murder

Mitt Lenix was an amazing man. I've worked with him for many years at circus camp, a summer day-camp for kids. He taught acrobatics, juggling, unicycling, stilts, cartooning, magic and other subjects. He was very popular among the kids, who called him "Mittens". We also did occasional gigs at various events around town.

Mitt performed with his friend Judah Andrews at the Georgia Ren Fest in the act called "Breaking Point". He loved doing these shows, and they were very entertaining. He go to display his martial arts and juggling routines.

As noted in many of the new stories, Mitt was a world renowned martial artist, and he held the worlds record for high kick. During circus camp Mitt would have a child hold a balloon on the end of a long stick, about 8-9 feet in the air, and he would leap up and kick the balloon, popping it (with a thumbtack taped to his toe). The kids loved it!

As if that weren't enough, Mitt was a member of the national guard, having served in Iraq as a medic. That experience enabled him to become an EMT here in the states. He was studying to be a doctor.

Mitt will be missed by a lot of people

Posted by GregMcMahan on 05/16/2012 at 8:15 PM

Re: “To sprawl or not to sprawl?

InAtl, ATL Expat:

Atlanta's already bad enough world-infamous notorious suburban and exurban sprawl would be even that much worse had the Outer Perimeter/Northern Arc been built.

Re: “To sprawl or not to sprawl?

Sorry, here's the link to the proposed "Revive285 Top End Project":

http://www.revive285.com/index.html

Re: “To sprawl or not to sprawl?

@ InAtl on 05/16/2012 at 5:31 PM-

"The bright side is my house is close to the Perimeter Center which as the course of things continues will soon be the center of "metro Atlanta""

Exhibit A: The Dunwoody Journal-Constitution (LOL!)

In all seriousness, though, as you may already be aware, there are actually plans on the books to run a high-frequency rail transit line across the Top End of the I-285 Perimeter between Cumberland Mall and Doraville as part of the state's proposed "Revive285 Top End" project which also includes the construction of four HOT lanes elevated over the edges of the I-285 right-of-way.

With the recent public backlash against the I-85 NE HOT Lanes in DeKalb and Gwinnett, the rail transit component of the Revive285 Top End project actually has a much better chance of eventually being built than the proposed elevated HOT lanes at this point.

Re: “To sprawl or not to sprawl?

"please don't mis-characterize and dismiss the Sierra Club's position, one I happen to agree with"

I'm not dismissing Sierra's concerns about the TSPLOST, only their approach. Rather than work to improve upon what the TSPLOST will deliver, they'd apparently rather work with nothing - because that is exactly what will be added if the ref fails. Its only the kid who stayed home from the prom who keeps telling himself that none of the girls were good enough to ask out.

You can argue about how the current proposal spends too much on bad development, in exurban counties, etc. - I don't necessarily disagree. But does it make sense to ignore getting any transit additions because there will also be resources toward this "bad development"? I got news for everyone who thinks stopping the TSPLOST will mean the end of sprawl development in Atlanta, and its probably not what you want to hear/believe.

Last, some folks think that progressive places (Boston, Portland, take your pick) spend all their transportation dollars on transit, when the reality couldn't be further from the truth. Take a look at Boston's TIP: http://www.ctps.org/bostonmpo/3_programs/1…. -More than 80% of funding is for road related projects, and only 8% is for transit. Makes our TSPLOST seem downright cutting edge. If you wonder why other cities seem to be getting transit built (Austin, Dallas, Charlotte, etc.), they're not doing transit at the expense of road projects. They're doing transit in conjunction with them.

0 likes, 1 dislike
Posted by ATL Expat on 05/16/2012 at 7:39 PM

Re: “To sprawl or not to sprawl?

@ Darin on 05/16/2012 at 5:54 PM-

"I wonder what would be needed to take advantage of the current legislation and get back on track with a land use plan that ties in transportation (instead of this inefficient, expensive business of playing catch up with transportation years afterward)."

At this point, all that is needed is commuter rail on existing freight rail lines that run through historic railroad towns and neighborhood centers where the desired density to build and grow off of already exists:

http://www.dot.state.ga.us/travelingingeor…

http://www.dot.state.ga.us/travelingingeor…

Just run the rail transit lines through the more densely-developed and densely-populated corridors and the rest will take care of itself as those commuter rail lines will become the anchor for future urban, suburban and exurban growth throughout the region which has long developed and grown along freeway and major roads in the post World War II era.

Additional legislation to force smarter land use isn't really needed as there is actually a huge and increasing market for more densely-developed, walkable, transit-friendly residential and commercial development, but we can't take advantage of that market if we don't provide the transit first.

1 like, 0 dislikes

Re: “To sprawl or not to sprawl?

Well we aren't Oregon or Delaware so I don't believe GRTA was ever proposing outright denial of Developments of Regional Impact of Witholding of funding action.

It was a slow (5, 10 years?) but steady path of transparency that would provide justification and objectives numbers that would lead to pressure and then enforcement steps. And the pressure to get and keep federal dollars by meeting the clean air act was a catalyst.

All that's gone now. 10 years lost. Apparently air quality attainment achieved and people are not fearful about losing it.

TIA certainly doesn't have any game changing transit plans to alter the fact that the vast majority of the next 3 million people will be moving into car oriented developments. And if approved that's the end of discussion of transportation financing discussions. And transportation dollars is the only effective tool for the ARC or GRTA to effect change.

The only hope is the fact even with 1% you just can't keep up with the exponentially increasing funding demands created by sprawl.

Also to be clear, I'm not suggesting COA will lose population or that traffic on the downtown connector will decrease, (Just where the f*ck are those people on the two reversable lanes on 75 that end at 285 planning on going when they get to 285?) I'm saying that as seen by the ARC population figures the transportation investments are being planned around a premise of not enough population being added to the City. So as the center of the region's population and economic activity continues to move north or well outside 285, the question become where will new employers or jobs locate?

Which is a shame since downtown is the most accessible transit area because of 5 points.

Thankfully only the City of Atlanta is dumb enough to give so much money to Blank, so the new Dome won't be in Doraville.

Posted by InAtl on 05/16/2012 at 7:09 PM

Re: “The most terrifying thing is called Aeromonas hydrophila

tell me more about how much you don't obsessively hate me. another four or five paragraphs should drive the point home

1 like, 0 dislikes
Posted by eric pfeifer on 05/16/2012 at 6:49 PM

Re: “To sprawl or not to sprawl?

"Measures were agreed to. Later they were changed and much of GRTA's mission was abandoned. "

Damn, that's harsh. Thanks for the background, InAtl. I wasn't aware of the history of GRTA and how close we came to doing land use right.

I wonder what would be needed to take advantage of the current legislation and get back on track with a land use plan that ties in transportation (instead of this inefficient, expensive business of playing catch up with transportation years afterward).

If 285 top end becomes the new downtown connector, does that mean we can tear down the current 75/85 one and reconnect the urban fabric it tore apart? If so, I'm for it. While we're at it, let's put the new GA Dome up there too.


Posted by Darin on 05/16/2012 at 5:54 PM

Re: “The most terrifying thing is called Aeromonas hydrophila

Hatred? Dude, you give yourself way too much credit. You are nowhere within the vicinity of being worthy of that or any other emotion.

If you were to drop dead tomorrow, I won't celebrate, nor will I mourn. I just don't give a fuck about you.

However, when I read the horseshit you post on a topic in which I have an interest, I won't give you a free pass. I will continue to call you out on your stupidity, your petulance, your arrogance, your ignorance, and your delusions of grandeur, overcompensating for your obvious lack of an education and the total absence of even the slightest shred of class.

2 likes, 1 dislike
Posted by howdy on 05/16/2012 at 5:49 PM

Re: “To sprawl or not to sprawl?

Thomas,

I'm curious about your concern that GRTA will operate the new transit projects. The TIA requires GRTA to oversee delivery of the projects (convey the money, make sure they are on time and on budget, etc). But I don't believe the law requires - or even allows - GRTA to control the operation of these projects once they are built. This is part of the reason for the the discussions of transit governance at ARC and in the General Assembly last year.

Posted by JunctionATL on 05/16/2012 at 5:44 PM

Re: “To sprawl or not to sprawl?

btw Newton is on of the 20 metro Atlanta counties, here is the ARC growth number over the next 30 years for them:

New People % Increase
103,300 106.4%

But great vision and map by those intersted groups and people in Newton County and its Cities. Its a graphic illustration of why we can't just pave our way out of congestion or of a better way to make efficient use our transportation investments.

1 like, 0 dislikes
Posted by InAtl on 05/16/2012 at 5:44 PM

Re: “To sprawl or not to sprawl?

Darin the legislation creating GRTA provided some authority to tie transportation and land use. A first step was to be regional/county measures that would have provided transparency to the effects of county land use decisions. And lead to enforcement largely via availability of transportation funding. Measures were agreed to. Later they were changed and much of GRTA's mission was abandoned.

In short new legislation isn't even needed, it exists. All that is needed is to take a few steps back to a time when the region had more courage.

Maybe that's why I'm so cynical of just what another transportation spending spree means when the main selling point is that we can "pave our way out of congestion."

The bright side is my house is close to the Perimeter Center which as the course of things continues will soon be the center of "metro Atlanta"

Then again considering the massive investments for Cobb over a year's worth of GDOT's budget for 75 plus a huge chunk of TIA maybe the march will take on a more NW tilt, after all Gwinnett does seem a bit iffy and Hall county is no Forsyth.

Hmmm, 285 north, the new downtown connector.

1 like, 0 dislikes
Posted by InAtl on 05/16/2012 at 5:31 PM

Re: “No Screen on the Green this year

Why isn't the Piedmont Park Conservancy rolling in dough based on revenues from their multiple special event facilities, concessions, parking fees, and the like?

2 likes, 0 dislikes
Posted by Question Man on 05/16/2012 at 5:29 PM

Re: “Daily Hash: 19th century beer, General Mills sued, and more

Nad and Neal Boortz in sync. My, my the end is nigh.

I scoffed at this gluten-free trend when it cropped up but my reading has convinced me that some people should steer clear. I hope I don't wind up there because I want my bagel and my baguette.

Posted by oydave on 05/16/2012 at 5:07 PM

Re: “To sprawl or not to sprawl?

jsrowe, thanks much for your thoughtful response to my comment. Part of me is hoping that someone can convince me the TSPLOST is an excellent plan so that I can get excited about it and vote 'yes' with confidence. You're doing about as good a job at that as anyone -- you make some great points.

I know that the TSPLOST projects don't necessarily preclude a retrofit of the suburban sprawl to make it more friendly to transportation alternatives. My main fear, though, is that this funding model will do more harm than good by essentially disincentivizing changes to the car-centric suburbs and entrenching the status quo of development style there.

Doing so would leave people who are stuck in those areas for financial reasons with no hope for adequate transit in the future. It would also give no incentive for halting a reboot of the sprawl monster across our precious remaining unbuilt land -- something that has already shown signs of moving ahead in the past few months according to reports I've read.

I'll disagree with you on one point, though. You state that a marriage of transportation planning and development planning is not going to happen through the government. Basically what I'm looking for is a regional control on land use that favors compact, walkable development and there are actually many exciting instances in the US where this has happened, one in Newton County, GA:
http://www.theatlanticcities.com/politics/…

Lastly, I'm not sure that TW and I are on the "same page" on this issue, though we certainly have some overlap. I honestly wouldn't accuse anyone of being on the same page with my admittedly extreme views on sprawl. I'm a land-use-control, eco-nut lefty of the Agenda 21 Police Force variety. Few are in my camp (though all are welcome to my crazy party).

1 like, 0 dislikes
Posted by Darin on 05/16/2012 at 5:03 PM

Re: “Paul Bennecke: The Transportation Geek

Bennecke is an insider Republican consultant and strategist. So how could he be leading an effort to violate the Grover Norquist dictum: "No New Taxes"? In fact, how can any Atlanta or Georgia elected Republican official support T-Splost? How can the Republican business dominated Atlanta Chamber support any tax increase any time, any where in Atlanta. That's precisely what they claim to hate, all of them! Unless, of course, your Republican road builder buddies are feeling the heat of less taxes being available for them. Can't get additional funds from the Republican dominated Georgia DOT (because that would mean a state wide income tax increase)? Then get it from the citizens of the City of Atlanta - they don't vote Republican any way.

Posted by peachtreehillsvoter on 05/16/2012 at 4:59 PM

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