"When I read comments like Iloveusa's (presuming he is not a troll)"
When I read comments like Iloveusa's (presuming he is not a troll), it makes question the whole basis of Democracy and 'one man one vote'.
As for war and civilian casualties, unless a war is a defensive one (or to assist another peoples or nation defending itself), it is simply immoral and unjustified. To claim that "it is war and "war is hell", and as a consequence innocent civilians are killed is devoid of humanity. Remember if we did not attack these nations there would be none of these mistakes.
If I accidentally kill anyone unless it is in defense of my home or person I will still face civil and criminal penalties, yet somehow we try to excuse it during war? Can I drunk drive and say whoops didn't mean to kill that kid in the other car. Or rob a store and not get blamed for the accidental death of anyone killed? Thus it is quite simple, if the basis for the actions are not justifiable than any deaths resulting from them are also unjustifiable.
Claiming that the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were/are justified flies in the face of even a basic understanding of history and documented facts. Eliminating Al Qaeda in Afghanistan and other regions is self defense and justifiable, the full scale invasion and occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan are not even close to meeting the self defense criteria. If the excuse is, "well those nations harbor terrorists," then why didn't we declare war on Saudi Arabia which had far more to do with 9/11 attacks than any other nation?
So then what is the justification? That those countries don't like our way of life and are threat to destroy it? I'd like to see the evidence that the peoples and government of those nations were looking to destroy the United States. They may have not all liked us and spoken ill, but hey either does a large percentage of the world. Let's also not forget that we interfered in Middle East affairs far more than the Middle East has interfered in American history. The US certainly can't take the moral high ground in this instance either.
Thus I challenge someone to come up with the base justification that makes all that follows defensible.
Now let's for the sake of argument say that the wars were justified. How is it still OK to kill innocent civilians? "It's ok to accidentally kill civilians because the other side targeted civilians". If that were the case then every nation on Earth has the right to declare war on the US, Great Britain, Russia, Germany, China, Japan, Mongolia, etc. Or for that matter using the same logic it is OK to accidentally kill people of a murder suspects neighborhood or family because the suspect targeted civilians. Would we somehow stop causing civilian deaths if the other side was only killing U.S. troops?
"We can't see the bad guys since they don't wear uniforms". So then if they were a well organized military with uniforms and clearly marked bombers and tanks killing our troops I guess we'd be much nicer to our foes and assure less civilian casualties?
What remains are ongoing unjustified wars that are killing innocent civilians. If that does not strike one as immoral then I do not know what will.
I care less about the war and its foreign casualties because we have more urgent matters in our country. Something needs to be done about all the starving , murdered, and abused children in the U.S.
Our Justice system has gone to the DOGS and you can get away with mistreating kids. I don't believe in the death penalty but lately I am beginning to change my mind. Why would an American fight to keep alive a murdering coward that prays on children. I guess the same reason a Muslim murders and brutalizes a non believer of the religion. When are you people going to realize that thousands die in foreign soil because they do not believe as Muslims do. Therefore they are murdered for their belief.
Support the U.S. under any circumstance that doesn't deny your FREEDOM as the Constitution set forth. I guess you could be part of a CULT like the witnesses ( lol ).
In Tennessee you can take a life of an unborn child but you can't drive a vehicle without being BUCKLED up.
Pray for our government and our troops abroad.
Evidently I struck a nerve amongst all you HATERS when I am a simple country girl who would fight for my FREEDOM. If I hadn't started having seizures in high school I myself would have became a member of the military. I don't even watch the NEWS because it is full lies and hate.
Obama has squat to do with anything. I didn't support him in the presidential election and I am not sure I will in the next election. He didn't start the war which has cost tax payers TRILLIONS, BUSH did. I refuse to vote for Romney because he has always had a GOLD SPOON in his mouth. I am from Tennessee and I am proud to be an American. Romney could never understand what it is like to be middle or lower class even though he pays a less tax rate than most of the people in these groups.
My husband and I are HARD WORKING AMERICANS who PAY our taxes, that has a household income of less than 50,000. If it wasn't for Obama I couldn't have returned to school in order to better my family. Bush never helped us with JACK. My state has a lottery for education and we are over the guidelines of their help. What the F is that. We have five kids and the state says I exceed the amount for college aid.
I said I DO NOT AGREE with the war but I support my country in order to have freedom of religion and so forth. If you people had a say I guess we would all be RADICAL MUSLIMS. My cousin got brainwashed while in the military in Germany by those MUSLIMS. It took her years to realize their beliefs were wrong. JESUS said LOVE one another as I have loved you. If everyone followed that commandment then we wouldn't be at WAR. The trade center wouldn't have been bombed and those planes hijacked. All those folks would still be with their families.
Why wouldn't we assist those people being murdered for their religion. They have the right to worship whomever they desire. They shouldn't have to worship who the Muslims want them too and be murdered if they choose to be a Christian and worship our lord JESUS CHRIST. Why has so many fled to the United States from those countries we are at WAR with? Common sense is all you need! HAte is how RACISM is spread.
We are all created EQUAL in GODS EYES!
PRAY for the FAMILIES of the MILITARY, that their lives be meaningful and these selfless people get lives that are more filling than to bash the soldiers that died for my FREEDOM.
Please dear Lord forgive the sinners cause they know not of you and fulfill the believers that fight to keep you alive. Be with me this early morning and my family, keep them safe. Help me to understand why I can't HELP everyone that is without food, water, and a loving family to guide them. Be with all the abused children and elders for only you can understand why people practice HATE. Be with the lost cause if they knew you they would be full of understanding and giving in their daily lives. Be with all the MOTHERS that are in the military and will not see their children on Mother's Day! Dear Lord I pray that HATRED be stopped and LOVE be felt across the world.
IN JESUS name I pray, Amen.
Wow, I can't wait for your 1 man show, ILoVeUsA. Oh wait, it's on Fox "news" every day.
"I personally do NOT agree with the WAR but if that is the cost of FREEDOM then so be it."
Jeeeeesus Christ, what the fck does this even mean? How many children need to be killed by our reckless pussyass drones for your bloodlust to be satisfied? Or do you just deny that we have caused hundreds of thousands of deaths?
The United States of America is based on FREEDOM, if you do not like the ways of our country then go back to where your ancestors came from. I will bet that it is the same as Iraq or Afghanistan. Why get on this site and ramble about the wrongs (your opinion) of our country when most families came here to escape brutality from their own country and the people of it. That is the problem with the United States now , they worry about all you immigrants they came to live here and have FREEDOM but do not want to pay the cost of it. Like I said If you don't like it go back to where you came from.
What about all the Christians and Jews that have been wrongfully killed. Why aren't you concerned with their casualties.
I personally do NOT agree with the WAR but if that is the cost of FREEDOM then so be it. I pray for the American Troops everyday that they will be fortunate enough to make it home to their families.
I also believe if we didn't stand up and defend our nation other countries would be attacking to overtake our government and take away our freedom. You people rallying against our government are trying to start a WAR within the USA. Why don't you start a blog to invade Mexico to stop the Cartel then the people from Mexico wouldn't leave their country to escape being brutalized or murdered.
We all came to this country to have freedom. The only people that would be left here would be the Native Americans. After all this is their country which GOD had sent them. How many Native Americans died for our FREEDOM ask yourselves that.
The problem with all you people is that you desire freedom but you also want to control and change what our forefathers set forth in the Constitution of the United States of America. Go back to where you came from and demand change of your own country or your ancestors country.
I know that my ancestors are Irish and Scottish ( i guess i am a mixture of several immigrants) which fled to America to escape hardships of their government. If you dwell within this country RESPECT it and its values, they are the only reason we have FREEDOM. May GOD be with you all!
Greece is paying it's resistance to the Nazi's occupation during World War II
Germans ruined and robered Greece
Please read http://www.greece.org/blogs/wwii/?page_id=… and sign the petition
"Well why dont you go research who owns CNN cough*Hugo Chavez*cough."
Heh, its funny to see someone who claims that Hugo Chavez owns CNN suggest to someone else that they do research....
The supreme court can hold a trial and force Zelaya to resign as a result of the trial. Thats not what happened. The military kidnapped him and took him out of the country. That is not constitutional. The supreme court did not order the military to send Zelaya out of the country.
ok well all i have to say is that any one who would call what happend in Honduras a "Coup d'eta" is clearly misinformed and uneducated on the subject. A simple search in a dictionary would reveal that the definition of a coup is: "a sudden decisive exercise of force in politics; especially : the violent overthrow or alteration of an existing government by a small group." (Websters dictionary) Now with that said it is quite obvious that unless you consider the Congress and the Supreme court of the Republic of Honduras a "small group" than your argument is shot down already. But if you need to be convinced more, get the facts and see that the congress and the supreme court both told Zelaya that he was in direct conflict with the Constitution of Honduras and that he must cease and desist what he was doing. Zelaya ignored the warnings and the Congress and Supreme court were forced to take action by ordering the military to remove Zelaya, to protect the validity of the Constitution. I am surly no genius but it is very clear and simple, What happend in honduras was NOT a coup, it was a LEGAL action taken by the Supreme Court and the Congress. Sorry i just had to get this off of my chest. Oh and by the way i bet you get your "news" from CNN. Well why dont you go research who owns CNN cough*Hugo Chavez*cough.
wesleywhatwhat tell me! Why do do think the US invaded Iraq, Afghanistan and bombing Lybia? Just curious.
Zelaya was more than revealed on this rant. Follow through and read the real truth by going to any Fox News posts. It is a blessing for us in Honduras to have the X president gone. Honduras proved we have a strong government here and will NOT have a dictator style government here. Honduras is perfectly ok and carries on strong unlike Nicarauga, Venzuela and Cuba. This is one of the best trates oh The Honduran culture.
Chris in La Ceiba
"Yeah, it's just Raytheon pumping us for money."
the MIC? pfft, what utter nonsense. typical liberal, believing in ridiculous conspiracies. now let me tell you about how billions of muslims all around the world are hell bent on destroying western enlightenment values...
if we didn't invade afghanistan for bin laden, then why did we? the charges against iraq (al qaeda ties, yellowcake etc.) were clearly fabricated. but have you spent so long apologizing for the us government that you forgot why we went into afghanistan ten years ago?
oh, i didn't bother reading your post until just now. you honestly believe in this race war horse shit. that's impressive.
You think one guy sums up this conflict? Man, that is shallow. If only finding one guy would end it.
I can't agree with every action we've taken but doing nothing is what will invite more terror.
Also, this really kicked off in the sixties when insane Palestinians started blowing up the world indiscriminately. It's WWIV, whether you realize it or not. Secular Sunni Palestinians, secular pan-Arab Baathist-type Sunnis across the Mid-East, religious Sunni Al-Queda, and hyper-religious Shiites in Iran, all arrayed against the West and ready to die for their nutty shit.
Yeah, it's just Raytheon pumping us for money.
"Once when I said something about police brutality, my dad said to me, "It takes a crazy motherfucker to catch a crazy motherfucker." Go Marines!"
oydave, i appreciate your internet tough-guy sentiment but i would like to point out that it's been close to a decade and thousands of crazy motherfuckers have been stomping all over the middle east doing everything but catching the one crazy motherfucker we were looking for
in a war to 'stop terror', like that's a feasible goal, we end up causing massive collateral damage and creating more 'terrorists'
this is part of the military-industrial effort to expand the 'terror' market. if we won the war on terrorism tomorrow, what would raytheon sell to the government?
remember, this all kicked off nearly a decade ago because we were looking for bin laden. after over a trillion dollars in public expenditure (where are you, deficit hawks?) and two countries invaded, with hundreds of thousands killed, we still haven't found him. any sensible, intelligent person would be mad as hell.
I'm puzzled by this: "When I saw the WikiLeaks.org video of a U.S. helicopter in Iraq mowing down unarmed civilians, I was left thinking it was a common occurrence. And when I read about U.S. troops in Afghanistan killing two pregnant women and a teenage girl then covering it up – then smearing the journalist who reported it – I could only assume that kind of thing happens a lot."
Now, why would one assume frequency? The author says they saw one example of something horrendous, and immediately assumes that it must happen all the time. That's not what you saw. You saw, without context, an individual event. Maybe it does happen all the time, or maybe it's rare but so terrible they saw fit to share it - but I'm not certain why one would immediately start assuming and jumping to conclusions re: frequency.
I'm also not surprised that they don't keep figures, that's more manpower and gray areas. We aren't fighting nations, clear cut enemies. Who is a civilian in a guerrilla war?
And as for the other commenters, who like to be all tough and war is hell and other such cliches that totally avoiding dealing with any real issues in depth, I'd like to point out that it's worth questioning whether these people even wanted our presence there. We're fighting organizations halfway across the world, that are entwined, to varying levels, with societies also located halfway across the world. They know we want, and plan on, leaving. This is why the village elders frequently come across as double crossing, it's in their best interest to get as much aid as the can from the Americans but not be seen colluding too much, because we'll leave, and leave them living with the angry guys with the guns. Oops, sorry we killed your kin after f*cking up your local politics and economy for years to come, now work with us or we'll shoot you, and leave you with a lasting enemy who lives three doors down.
pp, please share with the class one example of the country being harmed by any of the wikileaks released so far.
In response to Wikileaks just remember we do have existing laws our current No-DOJ could use...
Laws broken by Assange is 18 U.S.C. 793(e), which says:
"Whoever having unauthorized possession of, access to, or control over any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, (etc. etc.) relating to the national defense, ... (which) the possessor has reason to believe could be used to the injury of the United States or to the advantage of any foreign nation, willfully communicates (etc. etc) the same to any person not entitled to receive it, or willfully retains the same (etc) ...
"Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both."
As is evident, merely being in unauthorized possession of classified national security documents that could be used to harm this country and publishing those documents constitutes a felony.
Strange that there is no exception for albinos with webpages or "journalists." Because journalists are people too!
I am glad we are inventing better weapons to kill enemies rather than civilians.
Creative Loafing Atlanta
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