Wednesday, August 11, 2010
Photo of the Day Photo of the day: Is immigration reform possible?
Posted by Joeff Davis @joeffly on Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 12:46 PM
- Joeff Davis
Roughly 75 people demonstrated this morning in front of the Immigration and Customs Enforcement headquarters on Spring Street in downtown Atlanta. "We call on the Obama administration to move on immigration reform and stop deportation of noncriminal immigrants," said Tracy Blagec of Atlantans Building Leadership for Empowerment (ABLE), the lead organizers of the event.
Several students were also in attendance, including Lucy Jimenez, who is undocumented — she was born in Mexico and was brought to the United States by her parents when she was 10 years old. "Without immigration reform, I must pay tens of thousands of dollars more to get my education," she says. "I wanna go into nursing in order to get a job, but without my green card it will be impossible. I only want to continue my education and make a difference in this country."
Comments (22)
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Yeah, I have to pay for you to get an education, seeing as how you're undocumneted and don't pay any taxes for your education. I am an American Citizen, do you want to know how much I had to pay for my education? No, you don't. By the way, if you are undocumneted then you are a criminal, hence the term "illegal immigrant".
Why does everyone suppose illegal immigrants aren't paying taxes?
I think it's a classic example of expecting out of others what you yourself would do.
Think these people pay property tax or it's built into whatever rent they pay?
Have you ever looked at the books, like me, of a Mexican restaurant? The servers were reporting $500-700/night in tips. Of course they weren't making that, but they were paying taxes on it and cleaning up other peoples' money to qualify for bank loans and credit.
Let me take this to the next logical conclusion.
Why do people who are worried about illegals not paying taxes not care the least bit about all the corporations and large investors not paying a reasonable tax rate on their income (capital gains)?
Do you not get tired of hearing about how illegal immigrants did nothing wrong. This is not about taxes. It is about following the rules. We all have to do it. If we get caught breaking the rules we are normally punished. There is no need to deport people with jobs that pay taxes and do not get in trouble in my mind. But the kicker is THE RULE OF LAW. I think illegals help this country out a great deal but please stop the boo hoo stories. Oh poor Lucy has to pay for school. Welcome to being an adult.
Undocumented workers pay the same taxes as you and I, including: sales taxes on purchases, property taxes if they own property, and income tax if they have income. Certainly some get paid in cash, off the books, and dont pay income tax. But thats no different than what a lot of citizens do, as well. In fact, I would say that in my experience immigrants actually TRY to file income tax returns in order to qualify for naturalization and loans.
Where does anyone get the idea that undocumented dont pay taxes? They arent, however, eligible for government subsidies (food stamps, section 8, etc.)...
So basically, they pay taxes and dont qualify for subsidies... Thats a net positive.
And, you can be here undocumented without crossing the border illegally. If you come on a temporary visa and then overstay, for instance. Or you come on a work visa and get laid off. Or you come on a student visa and graduate. Or you come on a fiancee visa and never get married.
Damien:
Let's say Lucy goes to the same schools as your kid since kindergarten. She works hard while your kid jerks off in the back of the class and smokes dope in the bathroom. She gets better grades. She gets better SAT scores. She has better recommendations from teachers. But, she cant get any scholarships or grants because her parents were born in a country she doesnt even remember being in. Instead, your kid goes to college free. Thats the american dream, right?
damien:
When exactly does Lucy Jiminez become a "criminal"? Is it when her parents brought her here when she was 10 years old? She should have said "no mom and dad, I am not going with you because you dont have VISA's?" Or when she turned 18, she should have immediately booked a one way trip back to Mexico?
So, how do you suggest she pays for college? Get a job or two? She cant work legally. Get a loan? She cant get student loans or grants legally. Get a scholarship? She cant get state scholarships legally. Your response is " boohoo, pay for school, welcome to being an adult"??? AN adult citizen could get a job and a loan, two things she cant do. Theres no way for her to legally pay her own way through college without some reform.
Sympathy to bend the laws on immigration and citizenship never strengthened our country. We do not need more immigrants who are unable to pay taxes or who come in illegally in ANY form.
It matters ZERO that Lucy was 10 when she came in and couldn't speak up for her stance on legal immigration, which obviously she couldn't have. That is the most common case of 'I couldn't help it"----yeah well your parents could have. And they didn't.
Each immigrant is an individual case, and each illegal immigrant case weakens America. It does not matter if you are smart or dumb or a brilliant grad student, if you are not legal and you and your parents cannot pay your taxes, YOU should be deported; leave.
Too many times there are these same stories about "this is all I know" or I am "so close".....immigration LAW is LAW for a reason: to strengthen AMERICA, not to disperse America's wealth for every sad case of human trial; if you cannot be here legally, you cannot be here at all---our economy and our people depend on you to LEAVE, so we have law enforcement to remove you.
Every time I need to go to any ER room it is full of people who I have to wait behind that have NO HEALTH CARE, they're just in for a common cold and they can't see a physician because they can't afford it. If you can't afford it--you don't get to have it, AND YOU'RE IN THE WAY. Every single tax payer covers those costs that you don't cover, and it fills the hospitals' ER rooms with non-emergencies and puts the lines out the door across the country for horrible staff infections, broken limbs, and life threatening EMERGENCIES. Illegal immigrants in any form weaken our ENTIRE COUNTRY.
-----THEY CANNOT AND SHOULD NOT EVER BE SUPPORTED IN ANY WAY.
It is a privelege, not a right, to be here.
It matters NIL how much you are studying or if you want to be a nurse. I guarantee there are thousands of other LEGAL nurses in training who NEED your position and will hold it together in hospitals just as well and better than any illegal alien.
If you can't afford to come in properly, Get out.
Our country is not built to support the world, nor should it be.
We do not fly a world flag, WE FLY AN AMERICAN FLAG.
America will not be lenient to this, we are a country who values our future for the prosperity of our nation, and every single case of immigration law bending for the sympathy of an illegal alien, no matter what the person has to offer, corrodes the unity of our laws and the strength of America. Just get Legal!! There is ample opportunity to become a legal citizen--and if you cannot afford it---there is a reason for it---not everyone is meant to be here. Meet the law as it is set. It might be a fence, but don't climb it, buy a key to the entrance and earn the opportunity to use it at the gate.
What other nation would tolerate 10-20 million people from a neighboring country crossing the border? The USA has been very tolerant but it is time to say "No mas!"
Have any of you "but they broke the law" assholes ever broken a law?
Maybe you exceed 55 on I285, or didn't quite stop at that stop sign. Or maybe you tried pot once in college. You're all just as guilty of breaking laws as these illegal immigrants.
citizen: "America" is not a country. The idea of the USA is that you dont have to be rich to come here. Remember that whole "give us your weak, your poor" thing??? "Sympathy to bend the laws on immigration or citizenship never strengthened our country"-- umm, who do you think populated our country in the early days? Who do you think built our railroads and infrastructure? This country wouldnt be nearly as successful if it werent for initial waves of immigration due to lax (i.e. non-existant) immigration laws.
oydave: Okay, say "no mas!" But what do you suggest doing with someone like Lucy who has been here since 10 years old? Tell her that she has to go to Mexico? Jail her? Dont let her work or get health benefits so that, in effect, you make her life so bad here that you force her to Mexico?
Those kids who were brought by their parents illegally in America are not criminals. They were innocent of any violations to the rule of law their parents committed. Let's put it this way guys, if your Dad broke traffic rules and you a ten year old daughter was on board will the police officer issue a ticket for both of you breaking traffic rules? You know what I mean....be logical and rational.
I don't often agree with the Conservative Southern Baptists but I do think they are more sane regarding immigration than many, including the Tea Party which for some reason has thrown their weight into this debate (part of the reason for racism charges). Here's something from the Richard Land, president of the SBC's Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission
" ... the federal government bears some culpability. When you don't enforce the law for 24 years, you can't then all of a sudden say, okay, now we're going to enforce the law and the fact that we haven't been enforcing it for the last 24 years is irrelevant. We've got 12 to 17 million people who are here illegally who have, you know, I think it's important to note, they broke the law in order to come here and work. Whereas our homegrown criminals tend to break the law so they don't have to work.
The vast majority of these people are law abiding citizens once they've gotten here. They've worked hard. It's not realistic that we're going to round them up and send them home. So, I... "
"As a follower of Jesus, I also have an obligation to love my neighbor as myself, to give a cup of cold water to the stranger, to seek to house the homeless and there are biblical admonitions about helping those who are in distress, like the story of the Good Samaritan. "
"I say we can have a policy, first of all, where we tell the government, enforce the law, secure the border. "
"Secondly, they need to deal with those that are here. And as I said, we bear some culpability. You know, we've had two signs up at the border for the last 24 years. No trespassing and help wanted. And these people have come here and they've gotten jobs and they're being exploited by unscrupulous people who exploit them because they know that they can't appeal to the law.
And we need to find a way to help these people come forward and to earn a pathway to legal status if they choose to do so."
Tolerate? Actually we've been inviting them into this country. As stated they don't get benefits, medicade Social Security, Unemployment, Section 8. Social Security alone means they are paying 7% of their wages and the employers are paying another 7% for benefits that will never be collected. Right of the bat we have them paying a 14% tax that goes to U. S. Citizens, not them.
And as stated they pay property taxes and sales taxes. True because they generally are in low paying wage jobs their income tax is minimal if any after deductions but that is true of citizens not earning high wages.
According to Hispanic Marketing Group Estimates for purchasing power of Hispanics in 2008 ranged from 700 to 900 billion in the US. While clearly this group is not just undocumented individuals they are a vital component of the population.
The Hispanic population is younger than the White population which provides the needed balance to support our aging retirees who could be called a drain on our economy because they generally are paying fewer taxes (less income) while pulling resources - social security, medical, etc. etc. (not to mention many jurisdictions now offer generous property/school tax exemptions for retirees)
Also this whole law breaker thing is a bit tired. Being in the country without documentation is a civil violation, true if someone is caught illegally entering the country that is a criminal violation. There are a number of ways to be in this country, saying "illegal immigrants" are criminals and that is your only objection is overly simplistic. If that's your objection then shouldn't you also hate everyone who may of at one point in their life driven while under the influence or drove at to high a speed?
As a current graduate student at Georgia Tech, whose mother brought her here legally and whose visa ran out during her youth rendering her "illegal" before her mother worked 23 hrs a day Sunday through Friday for years in order to afford the naturalization process... I can not stand being called a criminal.
I was on the verge of being deported during my youth. Having grown up in the US since the age of 3, I, culturally, feel as American as my friends who were born in the US. If I had been deported to the country of my birth it would have felt just like sending one of my US born friends to the country of my birth to continue life; like an outcast once arriving there.
All sides of this debate raise some good and some outlandish points but the bottom line is that the children have not done anything wrong and if they prove to be a good citizen then reform must happen. Not all are as fortunate as I to have a mother who works relentlessly for their child therefor reform is indubitably needed. If you truly want to improve the US then I struggle how opposition to immigration reform or the dream act is warranted. What would you do for your children?
Go and get your papers prior to coming or once you get here, tried of hearing sad stories, theres a big difference between speeding and breaking federal laws .
Does anyone understand the burder illegals put on a society, and its citizens?, or does anyone care about those that pay taxes.
How can you pay taxes without a SS# or iting a tax ID number?
Smitty........ please buy a brain somewhere. Comparing illegal immigration to speeding is just plain ignorant.
PistolPete, I mean Catdaddy do we really need an old (from August 2010) immigration thread brought back to life?
Reality WTF are you smoking. You don't have to agree with the analogy but it certainly is not without some merit or logic.
Anyone ever tell you that you are an Ahole? Because judging from your logic structure and posting style you seem like one.
"How can you pay taxes without a SS# or iting a tax ID number?"
Anytime you go to the store and buy anything you pay taxes. Anytime you pay rent you pay taxes. And even if you limit yourself to income tax, most people have that automatically deducted. Not filing a tax return prevents you from getting back EXTRA money that was automatically taken out, it doesnt prevent you from paying income tax in the first place.
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