Tuesday, July 19, 2011
Guv'ment Atlanta OKs surveillance-camera center, gives us perfect excuse to wear fuzzy-mustache-and-glasses disguise
Posted by Thomas Wheatley @thomaswheatley on Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 9:01 AM
The Atlanta City Council on Monday approved plans to create a center where surveillance camera footage from across the city could be monitored. The center, which sources tell us will be called the Jeremy Bentham Knowledge Complex has already raised the ire of some privacy advocates, would include feeds from public and private cameras. Ernie Suggs reports:
To start, images from as many as 500 cameras — some city-owned and some private — are expected to flow into the center, providing images from Piedmont Park to Underground Atlanta. The center will use software that can identify "suspicious" behavior and allow monitors to quickly deploy public safety personnel. The software is also capable of pinpointing where gunshots originate from.The center is being built by a $2.6 million federal grant from the Department of Homeland Security and the Justice Department. The Atlanta Police Foundation — which funds the camera network operated by the Midtown Blue, a private security agency — is also raising money to operate the center. The city has not determined yet how much it will cost to operate the center annually, but the Council is committed to establishing virtually blanket video monitoring of the city.
But why stop there? The city could easily place cameras in select spots where craziness happens all the time, charge online viewers a fee, and generate revenue. Just think about the audience you'd attract if cameras were positioned along Ponce de Leon Avenue at 3:38 a.m.. Or near the frat-tastic bars in Buckhead. Work out a deal and place cameras inside the city's abandoned prison farm in southeast Atlanta so people could watch time stand still!
Comments (29)
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I found a dramatization of what this might be like - pretty frightening stuff: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anLfoy2XsFw
It's hard to argue with City Hall on this one. People are getting shot in Midtown in broad daylight. Cars being mass vandalized all around town. Where is Andisheh with his perception of crime posts? This is a crime wave if I've ever seen one...Maybe these cameras will help.
The fratastic bars in Buckhead? Aren't we down two: Moondogs and whatever that piece of shit is next door?
Hey S.Dekalb: How would that camera in Midtown have saved that girls life? They caught the guy, you know. Cameras can seldom catch bank robbers and banks have their lobbies set up like a Hollywood sound stage.
It's bullshit and pointless.
People will still commit crimes but there will be less due to fear of being seen. It works all across the country
"People will still commit crimes but there will be less due to fear of being seen. It works all across the country"
Based on what? There are enough cities around the US (and the world) reporting little to no change in crime rates after implementing video surveillance systems for that to be a dubious claim.
Plans like this do work but not with cameras alone. NYC is a great example of going from some place horribe in the the 80's to Disney land today. It is part of a larger plan to make people paranoid they are being watched and they behave better. Graffiti, litter, bums.....clear them up and things get better in run down parts of town and then people behave better. They think there is someone watching and in charge and it keeps people in line.
Privacy is over rated. I mean really what are you doing that you do not need to be seen doing on the street?
You might have a point boykin, if people expected the Atlanta Police Department not to abuse their power.
In the past they have shown to lie and coverup their wrongs.
"Plans like this do work but not with cameras alone."
There's no evidence that they work alone or as part of a "larger plan" either. Can you just admit that you were employing your own lazy brand of reasoning there without having actual knowledge of what it is you're talking about?
If anything, NYC is an example of what happens when a city undergoes drastic gentrification and becomes a destination of the moneyed while simultaneously becoming a point of departure for people of modest incomes and lower. Take a look at your last tax return and decide if you'd like for that to happen in Atlanta.
Evidence huh. Well if everything I have to say has to be backed up with evidence then I am screwed in this debate. The only evidence I need is how I behave when confronted with the threat of cameras. I know I would not piss in the street or spray paint a wall or rob a car if I thought there were more cameras out there. I drive better because of the threat of cameras out there. GDOT has hundreds of them. I know if I try and make a break from the cops they can follow me in certain places so I am more likely to obey the law.
You make it sound like gentrification is bad. NYC is a better place today from Times Square to Brooklyn to Central park because of efforts by the city to make people think they were being watched.
"Evidence huh. Well if everything I have to say has to be backed up with evidence then I am screwed in this debate."
What you attempt to pass as a fact doesn't necessarily need to be supported by the realities of the subject at hand. You don't seem like you're incredibly concerned with being taken seriously, so I wouldn't bother with it if I were in you.
"You make it sound like gentrification is bad."
Actually, I didn't. Yes it can mask the underlying the causes of a city becoming undesirable to live in, and yes it can can be done irresponsibly in a way that has a long-term negative impact on a city, country, and society in general but that's not something I addressed or implied in my reply to you. I simply stated that it's the reason NYC looks so different now (not cameras).
"NYC is a better place today from Times Square to Brooklyn to Central park because of efforts by the city to make people think they were being watched."
And here's where you repeat the same shit that you admitted to having no real knowledge of. Brilliant.
"You make it sound like gentrification is bad. NYC is a better place today from Times Square to Brooklyn to Central park because of efforts by the city to make people think they were being watched."
i'd say it has more to do with economic conditions than active policing
There are so many problems with this surveillance solution. First, unless you monitor everywhere, you just move the crime from the areas being watched (probably Peachtree Street, which already has more auto and foot traffic that deter crime) to neighborhood streets that will not have cameras. There is no way to monitor every side street, parking lot, deck, alley, behind every tree, inside buildings and homes, so, while the cameras will intrude on personal privacy, they will not be privy to the majority of locations where much crime occurs. Then, this will be an excuse to put cameras in the neighborhoods, watching me coming and going from my front door. Next, the cameras cannot prevent a crime. They may deter, though that's dubious, and they may help catch a criminal, though often they wont, but they will be ineffective in stopping a crime in progress. Next, it will be a matter of time before the cameras are used to find and track anyone who may do anything wrong. Do you want the police to monitor your home front door and garage to know when you return home late in the evening so that they may decide they have probable cause to raid your home to issue a breathalyzer then document by video that you were driving immediately before the test was administered, even though you were tested while home safe and in bed? Finally, do you really trust the APD to implement the system fairly and properly, and within the bounds of the law, and then to monitor the system efficiently and effectively. If you do, you don't know the APD or our city government.
This is yet another example, like prohibiting fluids on planes, or random mid-morning APD road blocks, or many provisions of the Patriot Act, or gated suburban communities, that sacrifice our liberty and privacy for a false sense of a security that isn't there.
So the concept that people behave better due to the concept of being watched is outlandish to you? What the hell is God then? He is this guy that watches every damn thing your doing and keeps the masses in line. People do not behave well becasue they like the idea of it, they do it because they are afraid of getting caught. I do not need research to tell me that if people think they are being watched they behave better as long as they believe it. A video camera system is not the end all answer but it sure the hell can not hurt. So blow me.
I thought most people wanted to avoid the terror depicted in 1984. I do. I'm an excellent driver and a pacifist; thus, likely wouldn't be overtly impacted (IN THE BEGINNING). But, I don't think that giving anyone the opportunity to keep tabs on me or anyone else at will is worth the "possible" safety improvements. It compromises our basic liberties, which I do not believe are privileges.
Besides, how long do you think it would be before the system is hacked? I certainly don't want my exes checking-up on me and wouldn't want strangers knowing whether or not I'm at home . There is no way that someone would monitor each camera feed at all times. As I doubt that I am a priority for the protection agency to monitor, the access will likely just make it easier for someone else to intrude upon me. Then again, I probably will be watched just for leaving this comment.
And BTW, I like Hole in the Wall. For those of us who want to go out dancing on occasion (and not get wasted) without spending a quarter of our lives "getting ready" or wasting a percentage of our paycheck on a rediculous cover, it's great.
SkyNet. The Matrix. InfoWars?
They wish they could do all that super shit that you see in the movies. Think about it. What is the computer network like that you encounter? They're all just getting along with some harried guys worried about it 24/7. SkyNet's the same way so it will take a while to get to 1984. Ain't that weird?
Now viruses that cripple a network...that's a problem. Just ask Iran.
The cameras should only be placed on roadways and high density ped areas. I guess I can't begrudge private businesses who voluntarily share their feed, but it really should only aggregate public area feeds.
"So the concept that people behave better due to the concept of being watched is outlandish to you?"
The concept of avoiding the implementation of a system that has no proven effect on your stated cause for implementing it seems outlandish to you?
"What the hell is God then? He is this guy that watches every damn thing your doing and keeps the masses in line."
And yet the crime rate is where it is. Yes, I see your point, I think.
"I do not need research to tell me that if people think they are being watched they behave better as long as they believe it."
I do. I need information about a subject before I draw a conclusion about it. I guess you're smarter than me.
"A video camera system is not the end all answer but it sure the hell can not hurt."
It can. There's the cost of its implementation, monitoring, and maintenance (beyond the grant) to a city with considerable financial problems already...the privacy issues mentioned, which are only exasperated when you consider that private companies and interests will be getting involved with the video monitoring of citizens...etc. Quite a bit to sift through for a system that only succeeds in giving some a false sense of security while doing little if anything to prevent crime.
This is not about stopping crime
as it is big brother and globalist planning.
If the Feds wanted to stop crime they
wouldn't be fueling a drug war in Mexico.
60,000 dead in the last two years .
That's more than America lost
in theVietnam war.
Here is one of the better studies in the field:
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080…
(credit taylor&francis, JQ).
As for those that state it didnt prevent the midtown shooting etc., cameras certainly were effect in apprehending the suspect.
Simply put, they are an effective tool in law enforcement.
Those raising privacy concerns would you be OK if all tapes were erased after 90 days?
Crime is absolutely a major, if not THE major issue in Atlanta and it is about time the city begins taking serious steps to confront it.
"Here is one of the better studies in the field:"
lol. Vox, your report (I mean your summary of a report) makes no mention of the efficacy of publicly administered video surveillance that covers an entire city. It's cute how you Google things and try to pass it off as proof because it contains a couple buzzwords that you happen to understand. You probably didn't even notice that you have buy the report to get the full text.
"As for those that state it didnt prevent the midtown shooting etc., cameras certainly were effect in apprehending the suspect."
Yes, a uniformed security guard that murdered someone in broad daylight at a busy Midtown office would certainly not have been arrested were it not for cameras. Let's surveil the whole city!
"Crime is absolutely a major, if not THE major issue in Atlanta and it is about time the city begins taking serious steps to confront it."
Crime is an issue everywhere. We don't need to lose our shit and demand that we all submit ourselves to tracking by sophisticated surveillance systems whenever something bad happens. What needs to happen is that criminals should be detained and prosecuted when they commit a crime. If only we had a system in place to apprehend and assign appropriate punishment to people who broke laws. That would be an awesome civic accomplishment.
Just because we disagree does not make either of us smart. I am no rocket surgeon but I watch how people behave when they are being watched or think they are. I see cameras all around the city now so I know we are being watched as it is. DOT cameras only show still images normally but those camera are running live video feed all the time. Have you ever seen the hundreds of public cameras alone they have? Anyhow, Chuckie i think we can both agree on the fact the city should not be spending money it does not have on this system. I just do not worry about the police knowing some of what I do. I am a criminal at heart and if I plan on doing something wrong I am going to do it.
2 important questions:
1. Are these the "make you look 10 pounds fatter" cameras?
2. Is this hundreds of thefts of my spirit, or just one big theft?
Not sure why I'm even bothering responding to Chuckie but here goes.
1) Yeah I guess your enlightened method of belittling people and pulling alleged facts out your ass is much more effective. I'm surprised more people don't simply agree with you based on your word alone.
2) Once again you yammer your typical unsubstantiated drivel and downplay the facts (video of the incident from both the parking garage and traffic lights was used in identifying he suspect and is in evidence).
3) Not admitting that crime is worst in Atlanta than comparable US cities its size pretty much discredits everything else you say.
As for the report I cited, maybe technology isn't your strong point, perhaps some adult education courses can help you out.
I'll grant that from time to time you are good for entertainment value, but that still makes your opinions little more than jokes.
"1) Yeah I guess your enlightened method of belittling people and pulling alleged facts out your ass is much more effective."
Oh I belittled you, Vox? You poor thing. What an asshole I am for that. But, yes, belittling is a billion times more effective than citing reports that you don't comprehend.
"2) Once again you yammer your typical unsubstantiated drivel and downplay the facts (video of the incident from both the parking garage and traffic lights was used in identifying he suspect and is in evidence)."
Oh I'm sure they were used. I only used sarcasm to conjecture that the suspect still would have been apprehended were it not for cameras, given the how major, blatant, and heavily witnessed the shooting was. I'm sorry if I mocked your stupidity and upset your infantile sensibilities in doing so. Stop saying dumb shit here if you don't want this to happen.
"3) Not admitting that crime is worst in Atlanta than comparable US cities its size pretty much discredits everything else you say."
Another unsubstantiated claim. You're getting good at this (being a moron that is). Even if it were so, using fluctuations in yearly crime rates around the country to advocate drastic, costly, and draconian measures in Atlanta that haven't been proven to work would still fittingly display your failed attempts here to be a criminology wonk. It's obvious that you don't know shit about anything. You can masquerade behind your cursory knowledge of latin and ability to Google a couple words and scare up reports that appear relevant (if you don't' read them), but you'll still be a transparent, fabricated intellectual whose "ideas" hold no water beyond the confines of your facile cognition. Again, if having this pointed out offends you, you can just opt to shut the fuck up.
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