The Beltline is a real estate scam where losses will be socialized and profits for large developers will be privatized. We need better transit in this city to be sure, but we should just expand on MARTA. wouldn't that be a lot easier? We should be expanding transportation and green space to areas that are under served but not doing it in a way that produces huge profits for already rich developers and displaces populations through gentrification. I don't want the Beltline.

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+1 for PoLeo! Yes, I'm going to make that happen.

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The majority of Atlanta's traffic problems are not in the intown Atlanta areas the Beltline would address but in the various roads that connect the city to the suburbs. For that reason, it's puzzling we would spend the few transportation dollars we have on it. Is there any doubt extending rail lines (which could cost more certainly) to the suburbs would be a better use of funds?

The regional sales tax (Transportation Investment Act), if approved by voters, would give the Beltline hundreds of millions of dollars. You must not ride MARTA ever because in the last year there have been two fare increases (it's now $2.50 for a 1 way trip) and devastating cuts to service including ENTIRE BUS ROUTES being eliminated. That money's going to this corporate development called the Beltline though. None of it should, with the crisis MARTA is dealing with.

There really wouldn't be too many objections in many areas I believe to expanding MARTA (and using eminent domain to do so). If your area is going to be served by a MARTA station, you're willing to sacrifice land, especially if it is unused or underused. We must remember, most of the eastern (South Dekalb), western (West Atlanta, South Cobb) and southern (South Fulton, Clayton) parts of the metro area that would be ideal for new rail stops don't have the snobby objections that many in the northern metro area have. They want transit and they won't fight it if MARTA wants to bring great service to their areas.

The Beltline was hastily given approval with little to know real discussion about it. There has been scarce media coverage of it. What we do know is it will take about half of the Atlanta Board of Education sales tax dollars to fund the bonds that will then go to developers who build in the designated area known as the Beltline. That's how this is being funded.

Look at how the elites running the show on the Beltline are blocking information from getting out about it. (http://www.atlantaunfiltered.com/2009/09/2…) They already are trying to decrease the amount of money that would go towards affordable housing by $9.5 million and they probably want to take away even more.

A conspiracy theorist? No, just paying attention and not buying the hype. It's probably something you should consider doing kbacon. Also recommend reading this http://www.blackagendareport.com/?q=conten… for more information. Again the media (with a few noble exceptions) has ignored this story. Why? The media is controlled by the same corporate interests. Everybody knows that.

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This is great! Are there any maps that show the length of the bike facilities (and I'm assuming that's a bike lane) on Juniper?

Turning auto-oriented areas could turn into walkable communities which support transit -- sounds like an awesome plan for the city.

I know I'm looking a gift horse in the mouth, but for future funding I think the area around Brookhaven MARTA Station would be good to look at. I'd like to see some improvements in ped/bike facilities connecting that station to the Town Brookhaven and Village Place developments.

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Bike facilities on Lake Hearn, Parkside and Perimeter Summit? google map it, i'm not sure what's needed there, its very barren though there already are sidewalks. seems that 3.1 million could have been spent in better places. I guess its for those Red faux brick crossings , though still not a great use.

And bike lanes need to go across Ashford Dunwoody, not via a detour down this street.

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ATl_not_alpharetta:

Yes, until there is a transit alternative for people who live in gwinnett and Cobb, Atlanta is still going to be a miserable commute for people living in Cobb and Gwinnett. However, people living in Cobb and Gwinnett have strenuously and repeatedly rejected Marta. The only recourse for people living in the higher-density urban areas of dekalb and fulton is to become less reliant on their own cars and develop more intensively within the urban core. The beltline accomplishes that.

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You're correct that Gwinnett and Cobb have adamantly opposed MARTA but that doesn't mean we should just accept the corporate welfare project known as the Beltline. If there truly isn't a way to have MARTA expand into the suburbs, there is still a lot we can do to improve the current system we have to help those in areas who want MARTA like Fulton and Dekalb.

The Beltline would be run privately and accelerate the process of gentrification (which is code for "kicking poor people out of the city"), and for these reasons and others it is bad for the majority of the city's residents overall despite the benefits it might provide. Let's have green space and good transportation but in a way that doesn't disenfranchise people and further enrich the already wealthy.

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It looks like my last comment was deleted but basically I said, the Beltline is bad because it increases gentrification (which is code for "kicking poor people out of the city"). It would be better to use our resources to better fund MARTA and expand where we can. I don't want a privately-run corporate wellfare project. That shouldn't be the only way to get good transportation and green space.

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I'm all for the Beltline, but doesn't $4 million seem steep for stairs and a ramp? I'm sure there's more to it than that, but I would have thought the folks developing the Ponce City Market would take care of Ponce-Beltline access, if not to make their development Beltline-accessible, then maybe as a gesture of goodwill after the deal they got?

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According to a Beltline spokesman, that cash will also pay for pedestrian and streetscape improvements along Ponce de Leon Avenue between Ponce de Leon Place and Glen Iris.

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I'm all for this. I walk sections of the Beltline every weekend (usually from Piedmont and Monroe down to Piedmont Park) and regularly venture to other sections.

I can tell you that walking down Piedmont or Monroe is loud and somewhat scary. Cars are flying by you and I'm always nervous someone busy texting is going to jump the curb and take me out. But once I get off the road and on the Beltline it amazingly gets peaceful and quiet. It is an incredible concept for the city and much needed amenity.

This is perfectly good green space going to waste that could be used to provide a safer and more enjoyable way to get around the city. Will there really ever be light rail? Who knows. But once they actually pave the lane then that is sufficient till this city figures out how to (if ever) fund mass transit.

Just the thought of being able to ride my bike in peace, quiet and safety to any number of neighborhoods in this city is a beautiful thing.

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I would agree to the gentrification issue about the Beltline except for the fact I've done the tour of the beltline and their is an unbelievable amount of abandoned or unused land along it.

So there is no reason to think there won't also be affordable housing near segments of the Beltline.

The Beltline is designed to spur development and I'd rather have Metro Atlanta's future population growth disperse itself along the Beltline rather than chase them all over kingdom come.

As proven with the project list there isn't enough money to even build enough transit so lets build transit where we can attract people to it.

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"streetscape improvements along Ponce de Leon Avenue between Ponce de Leon Place and Glen Iris."

Based on my pedestrian activities in midtown in the West Peachtree, 14th and Peachtree general area - i'm not convinced adding grey paverstones and black decorative light poles every 100 feet does all that much for the pedestrian environment.

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This is good news, especially because the shops around that intersection are likely to be the most popular destination after Piedmont Park on the soon-to-open trail. Now let's hope this can include some improvements to the Ponce sidewalks under the Beltline bridge... oof.

With regard to the first comment on this thread, it appears from looking at a map available on Beltline's website that the T-SPLOST would actually add very little of the Beltline transit loop-- it looks like there's at least an equal amount of route length for transit along North Avenue and Hollowell and to connect the forthcoming downtown streetcar to the Beltline loop via Edgewood Avenue. These projects may not achieve much in the way of travel time savings, but they are at least a commitment to premium service in fairly transit-poor areas with higher ridership (and development) potential.

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I don't agree about the "gentrification issue" but then again I own a house worth much less than I bought it for in a neighborhood where they are giving away $60k to purchasers for down-payments on half-price condos (and yet I still think it's a good thing).

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"So there is no reason to think there won't also be affordable housing near segments of the Beltline. " I think there is ample reason to suspect there won't be affordable housing even in areas that appear to be blighted currently. I say this just because every example of gentrification in the city's history follows this pattern. At the end of the day, all the developers care about is their own bottom-line and that means people's housing needs will generally not be something they care about.

T-SPLOST may not add much to the Beltline but the region-wide sales tax (which is a regressive tax) would give something like $300 million to the Beltline. It makes no sense to give the Beltline that money considering the service cutbacks and fair hikes MARTA has had to institute.

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Atl not Alpharetta well you are singing to the choir on the T Splost being regressive - even worse it taxes groceries but doesn't tax that portion of the sales price on a car that is over $5,000!

But extending rail in to outer counties doesn't necessarily equate into more affordable housing near transit. In fact the heavy northern tilt of the transportation projects (transit and roads) proposed means the TSplost could very well reignite the march north further up the "favored quarter" of the metro region placing even more jobs out of reach of those who can't or don't drive.

Though no need to fight amongst what transit projects to build the TSplost won't result in immediate transit but will result in quicker additions to road capacity. And the added road capacity will outstrip whatever transit ends up getting built.

The Beltline is a transpo project that helps to keep the population and job center in the center of the region.

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"T-SPLOST may not add much to the Beltline but the region-wide sales tax (which is a regressive tax) would give something like $300 million to the Beltline. It makes no sense to give the Beltline that money considering the service cutbacks and fair hikes MARTA has had to institute."

T-SPLOST funds can only be used for new project expansion and capital construction. MARTA is desperately short on operational funding, which T-SPLOST money can't go towards. MARTA could have tried to get a bigger slice of T-SPLOST in order to expand rail but that would have just made the operational deficit worse - a shiny new rail line but no money to pay for energy or labor costs.

if you want to argue against how the beltline is a bad idea feel free, but please stick to arguments that make sense. MARTA's fare hikes and service cuts are because of low operational funding, partially caused by the recession, partially by higher costs, but mostly by the continued refusal of the state government and local county governments to pay their fair share of MARTA costs.

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I realize there have been many public meetings but in the initial stages of the project it was passed hasty manner. Public meetings don't necessarily mean it has been planned or decided in a democratic way especially since the meetings aren't for the purposes of making decisions.

I realize what T-SPLOST will build and I don't think any of it should go to the Beltline because MARTA is in such need of funding and that should get priority. I know the state of Georgia has limited what the TSPLOST funds can go to. That's the point. That's why I think it's bogus and oppose the TIA.

There's no information indicating the developer who "lost his shirt" either loaned money from the Beltline funds or even built the development with the Beltline in mind. He just happened to have a dying development the Beltline Inc. bought for affordable housing. Of course, people have different definitions of affordable housing. The article says people making up to $68K qualify for assistance but we need to make sure people making $15K get the assistance they need also to own a condo or house.

There is still people who believe the taxpayers will be on the hook if developers default on loans also as the guy quited in the story mentions.

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The face we can come up with $300 million for the Beltline and none for MARTA should be a message to everyone that elites and political leaders want MARTA gone or privatized. We shouldn't have a privatized transportation system. We should have a fully-funded one that is accountable to the public.

Plus, does is anyone uncomfortable badly needed funds from our public school system is what will be backing the loans. According to the Atlanta Development Authority, about $180 million of Atlanta property tax revenue which is supposed to go to schools will be taken from the schools budget to pay off the tax exempt loans FOR THE NEXT 25 YEARS. To me that's the definition of corporate welfare and a sweetheart deal for developers. Call it a conspiracy if you want but the facts are facts and I think it's wrong.

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"I realize what T-SPLOST will build and I don't think any of it should go to the Beltline because MARTA is in such need of funding and that should get priority. "

if you realize what T-SPLOST will build then you would recognize that the operational funds MARTA needs cannot be paid for out of T-SPLOST. thus, you do not realize what T-SPLOST will build

"I know the state of Georgia has limited what the TSPLOST funds can go to. That's the point. That's why I think it's bogus and oppose the TIA."

sorry, i don't understand this argument at all. TIF funding approved by the city ten years ago and new capital projects paid for by regional sales taxes aren't the same thing.

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I'm not saying that TSPLOST money can go to MARTA, just that it should. How do you not understand that argument? It's pretty simple. I oppose the TIA because it would fund the Beltline not MARTA. I don't see the point in any funds allocated to Beltline-related projects when we have a dying transportations system already in place that could be much better if we just funded it.

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TIF Funding? isn't he saying the limitations against its use for funding MARTA operations in the TIA aka TSplost are another reason to vote against it next year?

Speaking of TIA funding that is going to MARTA - I was confused the claim that TSPLOST provided capital funds which MARTA is in dire need of. For State of Good Repair. I was told that one project MARTA wants to do is redo all their speakers in the rail stations so people can better hear them. This came up when I asked them why they didn't announce a long delay the other night. I kind of feel that's a luxury and doesn't really sell me on the TSPLOST either. They've put up all those train arrival signs which generally work well - seems a simple program to be able to also run a blurb if their is a delay of more than 15 minutes (which is rare) on those train arrival signs - heck they usually run on schedule anyway. That way those of us not standing near a speaker can still see the signs.

Anyway interesting ATL-Alpharetta looks like he's leaning towards voting no on the TSplost and so am I. Only thing is the Beltline appears to add to his No Vote while the Beltline in my opinion is the best project on the list and the only rail project on the list I have confidence will actually be built.

Thank goodness for the Auburn Ave light rail line it should be well underway by the vote and should be a very valuable lesson for how to do the other segments.

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"I'm not saying that TSPLOST money can go to MARTA, just that it should. How do you not understand that argument? It's pretty simple."

it's simple but also simplistic. arguing whether or not it should is moot when it legally cannot

"I don't see the point in any funds allocated to Beltline-related projects when we have a dying transportations system already in place that could be much better if we just funded it."

successful beltline -> larger tax base in fulton -> more sales tax funding for MARTA

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Atl not Alpharetta, what are you talking about?! First, there is $600 million allocated on the TIA project list for MARTA repairs, station upgrades, etc. It might not be operational funding, but please explain to me how that is not funding MARTA? It's pretty obvious you are not well educated on the TIA projects.

Second, the Beltline DOES build upon MARTA because it connects to it several times and helps solve the "last mile issue"... a lot of people avoid taking MARTA because their destination is too far from a train station. The Beltline will take people from MARTA to other parts of the city that MARTA heavy rail could never reach. It will also help make Atlanta a more vibrant city... so how is this a bad thing?

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Why is it moot to argue it? Just because it can't happen? I think it should happen so I argue that it should. Where's the problem? people do that all the time.

I'm just saying All of the transportation money that would be going to the Beltline period should go to MARTA. That's it. I'm well aware the TIA would give some money to MARTA and other things do as well.

A big problem with the Beltline is that it would be much more private than MARTA. So if MARTA could do what the Beltline wants to do by solving the "last mile issue" I think it would be more worthy of support though I still wouldn't support it. Bringing back the bus routes that were cut and making them run more frequently also solves the last mile issue if you think about it. why are people so quick to abandon solutions that could be created by MARTA?

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atl not alph, would you be comfortable telling these fine people where exactly in the city you live? I'm just curious, because I live in the "blighted" area that the beltline passes through, and walked a good stretch of the south and west the other weekend... from the crossing at boulevard to the west end station. There's such an insane abundance of affordable housing ( SFRs for 50,000 or less) all over the south side of the city, I can't imagine the beltline doing anything but good for places like mechanicsville or adair park. Its not just about transportation, Its about creating a new locus for private development in those blighted communities, so the people there can actually but groceries without making a 20 minute car trip.

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"Why is it moot to argue it? Just because it can't happen? I think it should happen so I argue that it should. Where's the problem? people do that all the time."

'moot' means that an argument is spurious based on the fact that it is not possible. we can argue back and forth on the merits of pulling MARTA trains by unicorns but at some point we have to admit that it isn't a valuable argument. likewise, arguing that the beltline is damaging MARTA by taking away badly-needed operational funding from a sales tax proposal which cannot be used for operational funding isn't a valuable argument.

"A big problem with the Beltline is that it would be much more private than MARTA."

by "much more private" do you mean that it only has deep ties to governmental agencies and can only achieve goals through governmental agencies but is not a governmental agency itself? please elaborate on why this is a bad thing

"why are people so quick to abandon solutions that could be created by MARTA?"

because MARTA is hobbled by low funding, poor public image, and restrictive regulation - none of which is addressed in the current penny tax proposal

if you really want MARTA to be a part of atlanta's transportation future you should be arguing that MARTA's funding charter needs to be permanently modified, or that it needs more state funding in general, or that the burb counties should join MARTA. you should not be arguing that non-MARTA transportation alternatives are parasitically damaging MARTA when that was never the question at hand to begin with

beltline is a project specifically initiated by the city to create more transit while circumventing the inherent handicaps in MARTA's structure. blaming MARTA's problems on the beltline is myopic and solves none of the problems that MARTA faces, nor does it help atlanta construct the infrastructure and development it so desperately needs

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"· Doraville, New Peachtree Bike and Pedestrian Improvements, $2.3 million"

This is a great idea!

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I may be wrong but i believe marta will operate the transit components of the beltline, so basically it is a marta expansion.

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Marta Trains pulled by Unicorns...I'd vote for that but first I'd have to see at least one of these Unicorns.

The Beltline is born from a vision of unified, vibrant, urban core with all types of people. It's the means to develop this.

Laying Highways and Marta tracks further and further north supports isolationism and fear. People moving away from poverty and dark skin. So many that it's getting crowded and "inconvenient" to commute and they want everyone's tax dollars to support their flight north. BTW, Of course they don't want Marta -- it's just a transit system for poor people and undesirables to infiltrate their pristine areas!

So people tend to support whatever their vision is. Unification and Diversity (Beltline) OR
Isolationism, Exclusivity, and Fear (Northern Flight).

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high gas prices and a long-term down turn in the American economy is going to do most of that for us. Close-ish suburbs like Smyrna and Vinings are going to remain and flourish, but nobody is going to want to live in Cartersville, or Buford if gas stays this expensive (it will) and traffic never gets any better (it wont).

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"The article says people making up to $68K qualify for assistance but we need to make sure people making $15K get the assistance they need also to own a condo or house."

This got skipped over in the above comments, but I have to point out that people who make $15k a year cannot afford to own and maintain a home. Why do you think there are so many foreclosures? Affordable housing is a commendable thing and should continue to be built into the beltline project, as we want people of all economic levels to remain intown, but saddling extremely low income people with housing and maintenance they can't afford is not the solution. Affordable rent is a far better alternative for the working poor. Having a landlord (yes, even a private one!) taking care of insurance, taxes, utilities and maintenance costs is a much sounder use of affordable housing dollars.

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^^
tru

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