west midtown is called what it is because the people who live there like to fancy themselves as midtowners, not because midtowners feel compelled to stretch out across the connector.

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West Midtown is a new one on me. I live in a condo across the street from what may become "Brookhaven," not the kind of tax base they were looking for I guess - most of the businesses along Buford Highway, generating taxes for the wannabe city, seem to have found themselves within the limits. I don't want to be a part of a city, one more layer of inefficient government; but, I would like to know how much pulling tax base from DeKalb is going to cost me down the road.

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Actually the better question may be why is there so much unincorporated area left in DeKalb County?

I live in the proposed City of Brookhaven. I believe its more densely populated than Dunwoody so not sure the "stretching" remark makes sense.

I was opposed to Dunwoody taking most of the Perimeter CID because I didn't think it was an asset that belonged solely to them based on quaint but unofficial notions of what Dunwoody was. I mean I'm sorry but the Perimeter CID is an semi urban activity center now that has little connection to the character of Dunwoody Village and its surrounding subdivisions.

To see people fuss about a land grab makes me wonder where they were when Dunwoody was allowed to grab an even richer proportion of land, richer based on ratio of taxbase to population. As I understand it the ratio of taxbase to population in the proposed city of B is closer to what exists in DeKalb overall.

But frankly the area being taken, especially the northern half was walled off from the rest of DeKalb by the formation of Dunwoody and the last annexation by Chamblee. Its an area bounded on 3 sides by Fulton, Dunwoody and Chamblee. In fact all of the proposed city is largely surrounded by Fulton, Chamblee or Dekalb. Leaving the peninsula makes incorporation as City of B a sort of clean up move.

And as you may or may not know the sliver of the Perimeter CID that is still in the unincorporated area of DeKalb is being talked about as potential annexation for Dunwoody if the City of B does not happen. Annexation by Dunwoody of this section of the Perimeter CID will make them even richer without taking the residential properties (that are a burden on DeKalb) off the county's hands.

Bottom line DeKalb as an Urban Area needs to follow Fulton's model and get the county out of the role of daily business by incorporating everything not just pockets that leave a mishmash of jurisdictions and no meaningful service cost savings. The city of Brookhaven perhaps needs to alter borders but I understand there is discussion with Chamblee and in the future they will annex some more property so that ultimately everything north (or east depending how you look at it) of I85 and the City of Atlanta/Fulton is incorporated.

DeKalb had to see this happen when the Chamblee annexation and Dunwoody happened. Why they are moving forward on an still unbuilt police station near PDK airport is beyond me. And they also need to look at reducing the # of commissioners and the pay of the CEO.

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By the way I'm not involved in the Brookhaven Yes, and don't have a huge need to see incorporation. I see some logic and it would protect me from my biggest fear - being annexed into the City of Dunwoody. Cause then I'd have to hate myself....just kidding.

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"simply because it might have some perceived impact on someone not involved. People have a right to choose and that privilege should never be denied to them."

Well I disagree with that statement. It was stated over and over again by the Dunwoody folks and if that's gonna be the Brookhaven folks line then I'm going to have second thoughts. The fact is if you are taking an unfair share of the tax base you are negatively impacting them and thus you are involving them. The old safeguard to this was forcing the cityhood legislation to go through the local county delegation first. Dunwoody was able to sidestep this requirement and its set the precedent. Though I think Brookhaven still needs to be mindful of its impacts on those left in unincorporated areas.

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I liked reading that quote from Bill Floyd, above. I think there's a lot of truth to the idea that cities are becoming more attractive because of a higher quality of life.

Unincorporated Dekalb, where I work, has been pissing me off for years now with its classic suburban-sprawl road and development structure and its lack of amenities like basic sidewalk coverage (the MARTA bus to my office drops me off on a patch of grass, dirt and pine straw -- loads of fun in the rain).

If the potential Brookhaven has a plan for adding much-needed sidewalks to the stretch of BuHi that runs through it, then that alone is enough to make me a fan of the cityhood effort.

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We don't need yet another government entity squabling with the over hundred other government entities in metro Atlanta. But Brookhaven isn't rural and counties really shouldn't be in the business of running urban areas. Best thing for everyone would be for them to join up with one of the adjacent cities. Unfortunately that doesn't seem to be an option.

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Centennian, I agree that counties aren't doing a great job; but, I'd go the other way - everything inside 285 and say 25 miles past it is one government. One set of police, fire, water/sewage, schools, transportation, dreaded welfare and so on. Economy of scale and forced cooperation for survival (and maybe a bit more pull in state politics).

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that's a sweet sweet pipedream, dave.

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There has been some talk of creating a unigov called Atlanta County that would consist of DeKalb and Fulton, minus a newly created Milton County that is much larger than the historic one (trying to keep all of a certain demographic out of Atlanta). But it hasn't really gone much further than navel gazing. Plus much of south Fulton is actually rural enough to need a county form of government so that would need to be considered.

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Gonna have to change your screenname though, InATL.

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Sure...then just impose a $5 one way toll at the intersection of Peachtree and Weslyan.

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Part of the major push for Dunwoody was for citizens to have more control over their community, even if it did cost a bit more. The DeKalb County government is generally unresponsive, and yet milked Dunwoody as a cash cow to subsidize other areas of the County. It was, and is, very similar to the situation in North Fulton.

So far, incorporation has been a success and has cost residents less than when DeKalb provided everything. For example, many nights there was one DeKalb Police patrol car on duty where now there are a minimum of 6.

I wish the residents of Brookhaven well if they decide to incorporate.

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Brookhaven'ites might be some of the most boring people in this city...and I say city, simply because of it's proximity to more urban areas. In reality Brookhaven is little more than a closer suburb. Boring ass homes, boring ass lives, and a night out at Verde Taqueria (which, by the way, has food that tastes like prison slop) is about as exciting as it gets in Brookhaven. Instead of trying to incorporate themselves into the fabric of the city, they want to break off into an enclave of more subdivisions absent of any interesting culture, nightlife, style, or design....Oh, Atlanta...you are forever doomed...

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BrookhavenGA I agree generally with you I just don't agree with that the population of the whole county does not have some sort of legitimate concerns that should be considered. That was the only point of Bill Floyd's quote I disagree with - though i'm not sure if there is a typo in there or its just kind of rough to read.

As you pointed out counties are given the power and practice the power of municipalities. Thus all of the county paid for the development of the Perimeter CID area because that was considered good for the entire county tax base.

As i pointed out via the Fulton model I do think all of Dekalb or at least a majority of it needs to divide itself into incorporated areas. I just wish we had an orderly process and not a whose first race to grab lucrative areas. Though as I said I think Brookhaven is taking a more fair tax base though if that's not the case then that's worth discussing.

Burroughston, Dunwoody isn't necessarily doing it cheaper - though true without pension liabilities and with new starting employees they may be. But the big reason for their savings is the fact that about 6% of the people got about 15% of the tax base and not because the original Mayor of Dunwoody did something Brilliant years ago...No that's not the reason because there never was a mayor or dunwoody government. Governance and funding was directed by the county using all Dekalb resident tax dollars. Though if you want to do it by who is closer then MY CITY should get the lucrative Perimeter CID taxbase cause I live closer to the perimeter center than most in Dunwoody. And if you take out the commericial CID district Dunwoody was not funding others. Dekalb loses money on single family homes because of the HOST exemption in fact everyone probably makes more money off of apartments because they pay the HOST tax but their residences don't get the HOST exemption so they pay the property taxes through increased rents.

AA, yea they could do a toll fine by me since I take the train to work and as a resident of DeKalb (which while boring is ITP so still cooler than Dunwoody) pay the MARTA sales tax.

Sincerely InAtl S/B InBrkn (ha) unless the housing market comes back and I can sell my house and downsize.

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BTW, AA, I'd support COA trying to incorporate everything up to 285. And don't deny that many up here would go absolutely nuts. Though I think on the food thing you forget how close we are to Buford Highway.

Personally I'd like it to be Chamblee, that area around the MARTA station was developing in a cool fashion and could continue once the housing market comes back.

Then again Chamblee annexing to much of the area could change they way they do things dramatically. So maybe its a good thing they don't.

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Sorry to go on, Chamblee never made a move for most of the area, think it was to big for them to take on. Or it was a fix behind the scenes.

And as stated above Dunwoody probably would have gone for part but only if it was profitable - in that they get the smaller section of the Perimeter CID area inside 285 but not to much residential. Now that would be a fleecing. And ultimately I fear Dunwoody wants to get in on Milton County and who knows maybe the Brookhaven folks do also - and that would be a catastrophe for DeKalb.

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@ InAtl

Try to spin it as you might, the truth of the matter is that the combined property tax bill today for Dunwoody + DeKalb is less than it would be if there were no Dunwoody. And the City services are better than DeKalb's. End of story.

As far as Milton County being in Dunwoody's future, I would be agreeable if it is to Dunwoody's advantage. I have no love for the "friends and family" jobs programs in DeKalb government, and I don't like being milked to subsidize the rest of the county (excepting Chamblee, Doraville and Decatur). And I don't think that it is my job to pay exorbitant taxes to prevent a self-made catastrophe in other areas of DeKalb. It's exactly the same situation as North Fulton.

I don't mind paying taxes, provided that I get reasonable services in return. That is not the case with DeKalb County.

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I like living in unincorporated DeKalb County just fine.

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@Scott H, yea there's the issue of not taking to big a tax base so as to screw over others is the main thing. Folks were calling on the Republican Reps behind the Dunwoody Cityhood movement to step back and divide things up fairly.

But then we have people like Burroughston who just completely ignore the fact that the tax base that is the commercial/retail complex in the Perimeter CID district is not a Dunwoody asset. He feels like he was supporting other folks. He wasn't. Perimeter CID district was and that was nurtured and created by MARTA investments, State DOT investments, State Investments and DeKalb County Investments. But because the land years ago was a farm belonging to the Spruill family he somehow thinks that the taxbase is for just Dunwoody and that it was unfair to share it with all of DeKalb. By that notion perhaps 40,000 people in Midtown Atlanta should draw a boundary from the connector to Piedmont park so that they could have better services and lower taxes. Yes Burroughston you are paying lower taxes in Dunwoody now because you stole more than your fair share of the commercial taxbase from the rest of DeKalb.

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Scott, some other boundary quirks. Brookhaven is still jumping over Clairmont road and thus doing a bit of an odd triangle to get the retail stuff and Plaza Fiesta on the east side of Clairmont. This isn't really for tax base but for folks who live somewhat nearby who don't like a hookah bar and a large Club called The Mansion at Plaza Fiesta.

This leads to an overall problem. Will the City of Brookhaven seek to shut down all the clubs in the area? Will they take the closing hours back to 2 AM from the current 4AM in DeKalb like Dunwoody did? For Dunwoody that wasn't a big issue, but you've got some long time bars in Northeast Plaza, (Atlanta Peach, Confettis, Pink Pony, Cream, Chaparral aka Rush,) That generate significant business (tax revenues and jobs) in a fairly commercial strip where such establishments should be. Granted city of Atlanta has an early closing time though it seems like last call in COA isn't enforced and thus its usually more like 3 AM. But 2AM is pretty early to close a club since most people go to these places after midnight. Is it fair to established businesses to change the rules? DeKalb did change their closing time for new establishments but grandfathered existing ones.

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speaking of that odd triangle to the east of Clairmont and cleaning up the rest of the area. Looks like Chamblee wants it and they should get it. http://blogs.ajc.com/political-insider-jim…

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For every active civic association wanting to incorporate, there's a heroic republican state legislator who'll make their dreams come true - see Sandy Springs (Wilkinson), Dunwoody (Millar), Milton (Moody), Johns Creek (Burkhalter) and now Brookhaven ("R" in name only Mike Jacobs).

For every incorporation, there are the remaining residents of the unincorporated area whose property taxes and fees continue to rise like floodwaters. How soon before Jacobs pulls the legislative end around needed to get this passed the Dekalb delegation? No need to study this...let's just git 'er done y'all. Viva la municipality!

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There is plenty of discussion about this on our facebook page:
https://www.facebook.com/brookhavenatlanta

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@ InAtl - I'm aware that Brookhaven is super close to Buford. I'm also aware that a vast majority of Brookhaven residents avoid Buford Highway like the plague because it's full of people who look different.

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@AA I don't disagree at all. And perhaps was not blunt enough in recognizing that when I said that while my first choice would be annexation by Chamblee it's perhaps good they don't annex a large portion of this area since it would change the way they do things. Which was my polite way of saying it would Alpharettaize Chamblee. Though with Chamblee's last annexation and gentrification generally, Chamblee may already be slipping in that direction anyway, I'm not sure. I'm pretty sure they still aren't pulling over drivers for being Mexican like It seems Sandy Springs does sometimes.

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@AA Though I do think the population in this proposed city will be more diverse and progressive than Dunwoody. I don't mean to say it will be progressive or a Democratic majority just not as strongly dominated by Republicans.

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AtlantaAdvocate, except it appears when they need some tax base from looking at the map. Don't have to like 'em as long as you get the money.

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A simple wikipedia search of Brookhaven will show that the area was incorporated as the City of North Atlanta from 1957-1965, so it seems there is a history of the area being associated as a city. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brookhaven,_G…
http://library.oglethorpe.edu/CityofNorthA…

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Brookhavenga, hate to beat a dead horse but that first paragraph from Floyd gets under my skin for dismissing legitimate concerns and I think it is counter to your point about Brookhaven dropping Century Center, and now Plaza Fiesta (see article linked below). Yes People have a right to decide but everyone impacted should have a say, and I think scaling back the borders based on the needs of fellow DeKalbites demonstrates that hopefully this is being done. Is it enough? I don't know.

As to my comment on the Plaza Fiesta triangle on the East Side of Clairmont, and getting the rest of the land north of I-85 incorporated looks like that is happening which i think is good from an efficiency of services point of view - assuming the portion of residential and commercial that Chamblee would annex is balanced - ie. not more than their fair share.

Bottom line when the DeKalb delegation for reasons of wanting to win a CEO race didn't use their last quiver to stop Dunwoody from being incorporated the horse left the barn on incorporation of other areas. Raising property taxes by around 15% didn't help either.

The county needs to figure out how to downsize and perhaps examine if the allocation of costs and revenues for various services assessed to the incorporated areas is being done properly.

http://www.thecrier.net/news/article_dc141…

State Rep. Elena Parent (D-north DeKalb) announced that she will introduce a bill this legislative session to annex the Dresden East neighborhoods along with Century Center, the rest of DeKalb-Peachtree Airport and Plaza Fiesta into the city of Chamblee.

“If that bill moves forward this session, we can work with it and make accommodations in the city of Brookhaven bill,” said Jacobs, adding that the residents from Ashford Park and Drew Valley who have been working on the city of Brookhaven are “indifferent” as to whether the commercial areas along Clairmont are in Brookhaven or Chamblee.

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I agree with the fact that Atlanta needs to annex all areas not incorporated ITP. Atlanta city limits is small, square miles, when compared to other large cities.

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SFR house = single family residential house?

Not sure what SH means.

Its incorrect to say all single family homeowners want Brookhaven over Chamblee. Most of the proposed city feeds into Chamblee High so there is identification with them.

I do agree the concept of Brookhaven crosses the chasm of the Dunwoody Proponents who use the word Chambodia, or like the higher NW more Republican aspects of Dunwoody vs the Chamblee folks who feel Dunwoody is too Republ or who like Chamblee and its ITPness (there's only so much ITP land left lets not id ourselves with OTP)

Another hurdle to Atlanta annexing is the only land left is in DeKalb - besides the Republicans being in an uproar I think crossing the border may make it tougher - though true there is a part of COA in DeKalb

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@ cqholt
Atlanta is the 71st largest US city, based on area (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Unite…).

It is larger in area than these cities with larger population: Fresno CA, Sacramento CA, Milwaukee WI, Seattle WA, and Baltimore MD.

Atlanta cannot effectively manage the area and population it has now. How do you propose that it handle a larger area and population?

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