Thursday, February 9, 2012
Neighborhoods Brookhaven, we hardly knew ye, or, What's in a name?
Posted by Scott Henry @ScottTheHenry on Thu, Feb 9, 2012 at 12:56 PM
- David Seibert www.hmdb.org
The name change, approved by a House committee on Tuesday, took many by surprise, but perhaps it shouldn't have. One lawmaker even asked at last week's Brookhaven hearing whether such a change might appease critics. The fact is, previous incorporation efforts started with a reasonably well-defined area — Sandy Springs, Johns Creek, etc. — and turned it into a municipality. But instead of being about a community seeking a city charter, this campaign seems more like city proponents in search of a community.
Let me explain: My first reaction on seeing a map of the proposed city, with boundaries that stretch all the way from I-285 to I-85, was that I was looking at an attempted land grab. Apparently, I wasn't the only one.
Funny thing is, some of the most effective opposition to a city of Brookhaven wasn't coming from the government of DeKalb County or that of Chamblee, which is rightly concerned that its own ability to expand would be impeded by the creation of a new city. It was coming from Brookhaven — the actual neighborhood.
"Part of the concern about the proposed city is that it extends far beyond what you'd think of as Brookhaven," says Frank Clementi, president of the Historic Brookhaven Neighborhood Association.
Clementi is careful not to take sides personally, but he acknowledges that many Brookhavenites aren't yet sold on a city of Brookhaven. "People are concerned that the use of the name would be too spread out," he explains.
If that seems a superficial concern, consider that for years, Vinings, the upscale, historic, unincorporated community nestled between the Chattahoochee River and the NW Perimeter, has suffered the indignity of having its name borrowed by half the apartment complexes in South Cobb. But there's nothing but good manners to stop someone from swiping the name entirely and creating a city of Vinings wholly outside I-285.
Similarly, the namesake neighborhood of Brookhaven straddles the Fulton-DeKalb county line, with fully two-thirds of its approximately 900 homes located inside the Atlanta city limits. In other words, most Brookhavenites wouldn't get to vote on whether to create a city of Brookhaven.
The map of historic Brookhaven that Clementi sent me shows the neighborhood ending at Peachtree Road to the south and Windsor Parkway to the north. Now, that's much too small a tax base with which to launch a viable city, but critics are worried that the pro-incorporation folks are trying to stretch the Brookhaven brand too thin.
Hence, the switch to Ashford. No one could be upset over giving the proposed city a semi-made-up name, right?
Actually, Laurenthia Mesh, spokesperson for Ashford Neighbors, a group formed in opposition to the creation of a new city, begs to differ. Doh!
According to the group's website, the place name Ashford refers to the neighborhoods surrounding the busy intersection of Ashford-Dunwoody and Johnson Ferry roads and derives from the Ashford Plantation, a sprawling estate that existed before the area was carved up into subdivisions.
Ironically, Mesh says the appropriation of the Ashford name isn't the main reason she and others oppose a new city. In fact, while the pro-city group Brookhaven Yes organized less than a month ago, Ashford Neighbors was formed last March. Mesh says she went door-to-door, personally gathering 500 signatures of neighbors opposed to incorporation.
"We can't understand the rush or even the idea behind it. The people I know who moved here did so because they wanted to live in unincorporated DeKalb," says Mesh, who has lived in different homes within the Ashford area for more than 50 years. "We're happy with DeKalb. We feel like the county police do a great job."
Mesh is hopeful that the Legislature will put Brookhaven on hold long enough to pass House Bill 830, a measure that would create a year-long "waiting period" for the creation of any new city, as well as give more consideration to the affected county and neighboring municipalities. However, since that bill is sponsored by two DeKalb Democrats, it stands a slim chance of going anywhere in the GOP-controlled House.
Still, Mesh believes that there are more people within the proposed boundaries who don't want to form a city — no matter what the place ends up being called — than are in favor of it. Or, at the very least, they'd like to have more time to discuss the options, rather than adhere to the breakneck schedule set forth by city advocate Rep. Mike Jacobs, R-DeKalb, whose bill proposes a July 31 referendum.
Says Mesh: "Every public hearing I've been to, we've been in the majority."
Comments (28)
Showing 1-28 of 28
Look at Mesh's property holdings & politcal afiliations (doings)...Every bird has a nest & a flock! She does not speak for everyone. This fact needs to be made very clear. Her ego is something else!
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Johns Creek is 32 sq miles
Dunwoody is 13.7 sp miles
Sandy Springs is 39 sq miles
Brookhaven, as proposed, is 12 sq miles. The area of "Brookhaven" is more dense in population than any of those other cities and smaller than any of these other cities that you think were 'defined communities' and weren't 'land grabs.'
I would say that your opinions don't seem to be supported by facts.
As far as the name change, the good folks of Brookhaven, NY didn't have any say over whether the tiny neighborhood near Atlanta could use their name in the early 20th century either.
No one owns the name Brookhaven.
By the way, has anyone ever seen Ms. Marsh's signatures? I had someone come door-to-door on behalf of Ashford Neighbors, alright, but it was a paid day laborer who when asked said he didn't have an opinion on cityhood and wasn't from the area.
The 'media'...both mainstream, non-mainstream, and semi-stream...keep quoting her and giving her press. I wish they would actually explore whether her list of incoherent demands had any legitimacy vs. just filling their stories with her quotes because it makes a better piece.
Sandy Springs took a portion of Fulton that was always considered Dunwoody. This stuff happens. There some very wealthy houses along the golf course that is that part of historic Brookhaven that is in Fulton County.
Scott, I guess the question is what's the solution? County's running these facets of government in urban or more densely populated area's doesn't make sense - its a throwback - much like Sheriffs in urban counties.
It doesn't make sense to leave this remaining portion of land in North DeKalb unincorporated. Follow the Fulton model and get everything north of 85 incorporated.
Sure the entire area was not historically Brookhaven. But what name do you call it? Ashford? that's just stupid. BTW the name will be changed back in the Senate. If it turns out the people in Brookhaven in DeKalb don't want it then that works since they get to vote.
They said they were giving Plaza Fiesta up so that Chamblee had the land it wanted and Elena Parent was introducing a bill that will have Chamblee take the rest of the land North of 85. Even though, like their last annexation none of the areas are historically considered Chamblee. That's good.
This cities based on well defined communities idea is kind of a red herring. Nice neat areas of community went out the door years ago when counties rabidly pursued growth without a plan, growth for growths sake. So we got to draw them on what's an efficient area to govern and what's fair.
Incorporation is a waste of time and money. DeKalb County does a perfectly fine job managing the area.
Mesh vehemently hates traffic circles - that's all I need to know.
Johns Creek is 32 sq miles
Dunwoody is 13.7 sp miles
Sandy Springs is 39 sq miles
That pretty much addresses the Stretch quote for this very geographically sensibly drawn area that upon Chamblee's Annexation will be surrounded almost entirely by Cities and even without the Chamblee proposed annexation is largely surrounded by cities.
In ATL you must be on the Chamblee City Council. Let the people affected vote on where they want to go not Chamblee! Brookhaven = Great. Chamblee = OK. And it has nothing to do with your previously stated perceptions of the media, minorities, etc. I live closer to the New Brookhaven; then Chamblee. I go to the Brookhaven Marta station not chamblee b/c it is much closer.
Ms. Mesh can jump into a creek for all I care!
@smitty
Well...it seems that over the last decade, folks disagreed with you and showed it with where they decided to live.
DeKalb county, as whole, grew at a rate of 3.9% over the past 10 years. That's not only the worst rate out of the metro area, but it hides an interesting distinction.
Unicorporated DeKalb actually lost population....even if you don't count the folks that left via Dunwoody. Decatur, Chamblee, Avondale, and the portion of the City of Atlanta that lies in DeKalb grew while unicorporated DeKalb shrunk.
Try to take a guess if the budget for unicorporated DeKalb shrunk, too. DeKalb is paying roughly 20%-30% more per capita via services provided by their Tax Funds Budget than it was 10 years ago. They have a study from GA State in their hands that says they need to cut about 100-150 employees to be efficient. The CEO ignores it....while at the same time saying we need more studies on Brookhaven. I guess the more studies he has to ignore, the more it looks like he is actually doing something.
City of Brookhaven is a bad idea...though I understand wanting to give Dekalb County the heave ho (sorry smitty, I guess you've just been lucky and havn't yet been screwed nine ways to Sunday as is Dekalb's wont.)
Sometimes incorporation and/or annexation is a good idea, sometimes not. ITP, we don't need any more new cities. We need to fix the dysfunctional Atlanta city government, the dysfunctional Fulton County government and the dysfunctional DeKalb County government.
"Mesh vehemently hates traffic circles"
There's some good in everyone.
and, why is it that they don't just vote to annex into atlanta?
Why do those who want to create new government (e.g., a new city) so often aggressively push for less government?
"Let the people affected vote on where they want to go not Chamblee!"
The people affected by this aren't limited to those who live within proposed boundaries, which is kind of why we're having this discussion.
chuckie: Aren't all people in the state affected by transit plans? So why don't all people participate in decisions for all plans, such as by letting our legislators decide (even if the legislators' decisions are unpredictable)?
Because the legislators have essentially decided not to make the transit decisions themselves.
Is that necessarily bad? Are they telling us to accept the status quo and work with it?
What's in a name? That which we call a beer fart into a K&G suit by any other name would smell as sweet.
Hmmm..In the 60's when I went to Skyland Elementary and lived on Skyland Drive it was always known as Brookhaven. Guess I've been mistaken for the last 50 years and lived in never land.
"Is that necessarily bad? "
It's bad that we've gotten off-topic...but it's also bad for a group of elected leaders to punt large, complex policy decisions (such as transit) back to individuals to bicker over, turning the legislative process into an infinite loop of indecision. Elected officials shirking their responsibility in this manner will have us falling further and further behind with each passing year.
Why do I get the sense a bunch of cities will be created to preempt depredations?
Oh, and while all this goes on, that a DeKalb County with a shrinking tax base will continue to grow?
I may have to start agitating for the City of Northlake, just to keep the wolf^H^H^H^HCity of Brookhaven from the door.
"Let People Vote" What are you talking about. Didn't they change or aren't they going to change the Brookhaven limits to further accommodate Chamblee and thus leave Plaza Fiesta out so that Chamblee can Annex it?
"The people affected by this aren't limited to those who live within proposed boundaries, which is kind of why we're having this discussion."
Chuckie I agree with this statement, but that's not the point Scott Henry makes. Instead he seems to be dwelling on his perception that the area is "stretched" that it doesn't cover a community.
Unlike, Dunwoody, everything indicates that the proposed city of Brookhaven doesn't have out of wack ratio of commerical base (lucrative) to owner occupied residential (tax drain due to HOST exemption). Which is why Brookhaven residents will be paying a higher tax rate than those who live in Dunwoody.
Bottom line, when Dunwoody was allowed to incorporate (including a last minute punt by the DeKalb delegation that could have blocked it) and last year's Chamblee annexation of everything east of Chamble Dunwoody Road, West of Doraville and inside 285. Much of this proposed area was left in an almost land locked area surrounded by Dunwoody, Chamblee and the Fulton line.
Wish there was a better map of all of DeKalb that clearly showed the current city limits (many don't show Chamblee's annexation to 285) and also the proposed city of Brookhaven and additional annexation by Chamblee. From that perspective it makes sense.
And if Brookhaven doesn't happen, Dunwoody is going to swoop in and cherry pick the proposed area. Dunwoody is far more Republican an area and thusly will be far more aggressive in pursuing an annexation or inclusion into the Milton County. Dunwoody going to Milton County will be catastrophic to DeKalb. Even if Milton never happens Dunwoody annexing the rest of the CID area without taking enough residential will hurt DeKalb more than the proposed city of Brookhaven.
I'll admit the fear of this annexation by Dunwoody is one of several reasons I'm heavily leaning towards brookhaven.
http://www.thecrier.net/news/article_9694d…
"While Dunwoody would receive a huge increase in tax revenue if it were to annex such buildings as the Auto Trader tower (the former Hewlett Packard building) and Villa Christina, a consensus exists on the council and among state legislators that no such action will be taken until the movement for a city of Brookhaven is resolved. "
Regarding Mesh and this semi fictitious Ashord Neighbors group. Check out these quotes from their web page http://ashfordneighbors.org/#29b/custom_pl… :
"The study assumed Brookhaven was equivalent to Smyrna, but Smyrna doesn’t have Buford Highway . .... Criminals would waste no time expanding from high crime areas into our neighborhoods. "
They've toned this down over what was there but it still comes across clearly, they don't want to be associated with ...
"Chamblee Charter HIgh School is delayed 5.5 months waiting for the City of Chamblee to release construction funds already approved by DeKalb County. "
Um.... part of the reason, the county rubberstamps the school projects, City of Chamblee asked for reasonable modifications that improved pedestrian access to the school, including moving the school closer to Chamblee Dunwoody Road which is the route students walk from the Marta Train station to the school on.
"Why should we pick up the tab for bankrupt businesses on Buford Highway due to immigration law issues?"
What?
"Because the dozen or so "committee" wants to change us to a city from Perimeter Mall [285 actually] to I-85, including Buford Highway, we offer another option--STAY AS WE ARE!--a community of happy neighbors living in DeKalb County."
Again with the Buford Highway comment?
Mesh is a complete fool. And power hungry sap! Boycott Mesh and her cronies.
Agree on Mesh...and wonder why 'news' people like the author does in this instance (sorry...enjoy his work, but have to be fair) give her a platform other than to create a better story. "Journalists" should vet their sources, not just take their crazy at face value because it helps the narrative of the story.
As far as 'boycott' Mesh...I wish I could. The fact that she tried to sneak a pawn shop into the old Blockbuster when zoning clearly doesn't allow it was bad enough. (#brookhavenproblems)
However, the folks at Corner Pizza and Bat and Ball are good local business owners and can't really be blamed for who their landlord is.
I'm more a fan of the vintage pizza near the Chamblee Station on the ground floor of that fairly new brick condo building. Galla Pizza on the other hand I went to 3 or 4 years ago and never went back after seeing Freedom Fries on the menu (Per their website they still call them that!).
Scott not sure how to share this info. But in the interest of fairness I'll share that there is a group that's been around for a while called the Ashford Alliance. Covers much of the proposed Brookhaven area. Its purposefully a "coalition" of the area homeowner groups. All invited to the meetings though votes are only by representatives of the member homeowner groups - pretty easy to join though. Initially they were justifiably teed off at the way Mike Jacobs introduced the first bill, a Dunwoody Annexation bill, that after polling turned into the Brookhaven bill. Think they also want to slow this down, though they haven't really taken a vote of the member organizations and attendance has been very low for their meetings since as is typical folks tend to get quiet when there is not a burning issue.
That's the problem with DeKalb, things are real loosey goosey, we don't have NPU's, there's a thing called community council but that's a joke they have no authority other than to make a recommendation that the commissioners don't pay much attention to - so it ends up being more of an opportunity to make sure the community knows about a development proposal.
"Chuckie I agree with this statement, but that's not the point Scott Henry makes. Instead he seems to be dwelling on his perception that the area is "stretched" that it doesn't cover a community."
My statement was in response to Let People's oversimplified view of how these decisions should me made.
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