Wednesday, November 16, 2011
Herman Cain: Please STFU
Posted by Cliff Bostock @cliffbostock on Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 9:21 AM
The lunch occurred before the rumors about sexual harassment arose, but we'd already heard his flip-flopping over abortion and gay marriage. Now it turns out that even pizza and the men who eat it are not exempt from his gender bias:
Chris Heath: What can you tell about a man by the type of pizza that he likes?Herman Cain: [repeats the question aloud, then pauses for a long moment] The more toppings a man has on his pizza, I believe the more manly he is.
Chris Heath: Why is that?
Herman Cain: Because the more manly man is not afraid of abundance. [laughs]
Devin Gordon: Is that purely a meat question?
Herman Cain: A manly man don't want it piled high with vegetables! He would call that a sissy pizza.
It's certainly not his worst remark, but, as Mary Elizabeth Williams of Salon opines, it's nonetheless exemplary of his Tourette's-like blathering.
Comments (20)
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This seems like a relevant, food-related post. No politics at all!
We write about politics on this blog. We have never claimed not to. Food = life. Life includes politics.
Wow, touchy touchy Besha. I would say most people don't really want to read about politics when it comes to food. Sorry. We get enough passion and fights about politics in other places. For me, food and my passion for it is a respite for that. My guess is you probably have many folks that read CL's food sections that don't even come close to agreeing with CL's politics. Careful you don't run them off. But then maybe you do want to run them off with that snarky response.
I understand politics can be a part of this blog, but why everyday politics? I watched this on the Today Show this morning. If it were politics about say, policy related to increasing worldwide food pricing, it would be more relevant to this forum. Or whether a candidate supports fair-trade practices in the worldwide coffee trade. This is some gender-bias conversation had over pizza and while I don't mean to dismiss the incorrectness of his comments, I wish it wasn't appearing under my "Food & Wine" heading on Google Reader. Shall I move it to "Politics"?
I have relied this blog to serve as medium for me to escape the everyday "mindless blather" that comes out of every other news source and learn something new about food culture. This blog has always delivered on that front.
But, CL is the one with the megaphone so you have the right to publish whatever you please. Kudos.
This would be a fun gag for someone to put together: have Cain walk into a pizza place in Naples -- one where strapping young Italian men are eating meatless Pizza Margherita and Pizza Bianca -- and proclaim them all to be sissies.
And please record it on video so we can all enjoy the hilarious results!
Not trying to run anyone off, or be snarky. Was a matter of fact statement. Tone is super hard to judge online, so apologies if it came across as touchy.
We've had people complain in the past about our stepping into politics and culture here, but it's part of our personality and I stand behind it. In a totally caring and sharing way.
a question for foodies then: do you really want the former ceo of an awful pizza chain, former head of pillsbury— an awful purveyor of over-processed slop, to be setting the tone for agricultural and commercial policy as it relates to food for the next 4 or 8 years?
Food doesn't get to be an apolitical island in a base world unless you want to lie to yourself.
More toppings = more money. No mystery why a pizza CEO would say that.
When he was on Jimmy Kimmel, Jimmy showed him a picture of a Taco Pizza which was piled high with stuff and asked, "would this have happened on your watch?" "Absolutely," answered Herman. Jimmy opined that thin NY style plain was the true pizza and Herman replied "Jimmy, you need to think thicker and bigger!" Then he turned and mugged the camera with his patented toothy smile. And the crowd went wild. Liberal crowd, too.
Do you want a one-world collectivist setting food and agricultural policy for the next four years? Oh yeah, we just had that. Pizza guy or Olympics guy would be better.
Anybody who thinks that ol' Cliff will hold back on anything is dreaming. Go for it Cliff!
Wow, I didn't even think of this post as particularly political. I recently wrote that I was sick of hearing about Michele Obama's garden. Is that political?
Clifford, over the decades here, nobody has perfected the ability to segue from a piece of flounder to a far left-wing political rant. Glad to see you confirm what we knew. It's so knee-jerk you don't even know you are doing it.
When somebody is so insecure about their beliefs, they have to ambush it under the guise of a food related post, that's when one is waiving the flag. You've done it for decades Cliff.
Oh, cut the crap, Nick. I didn't say I haven't injected politics into my work at CL. I have and I will continue to.
What I said is that I didn't think citing Cain's dumbass comments was particularly political. It's absurdity.
You didn't answer my question. Is making fun of Michele Obama's garden obsession political? Was my eyerolling at Obama's hurry to a burger place to counteract the stupid arugula brouhaha (and then ordering Dijon mustard) political?
What is directly political is criticizing Obama for reversing his promise to end the outrageous agriculture subsidies.
Your last graf is incoherent. And you've been so for decades.
Cliff, you told a man to "STFU" over an alleged conversation that included an innocuous joke. That's a far cry critiquing a policy. And as a fan of Michele, if you told her to "STFU" over an innocent joke or actual policy, yes that would be totally undignified as well.
I hope that answers your question.
Besha, you really see this as "talking politics?" You don't see it as ambushing politics? Come on now. He takes some hearsay conversation about pizza and somehow finds a way to segue into unborn rights and redefining marriage and you call that "talking politics?"
But hey, your paper seems to be financially solvent, so clearly CL knows what they are doing.
Besha, you ought to take some time to
learn the capitals of Canadian provinces.
This is covered in American schools.
(I realize you didn't attend them.)
And while you are doing that, don't write
anything. Feel free to take a year to do this,
if necessary.
Oh brother. The conversation wasn't hearsay.
If something like this is such a problem for you, you're going to suffer a terrible case of acid-indigestion. In any case, Besha didn't disagree that it was a political comment.
Your use of the terms "unborn" and "redefining marriage" explains your objection. They are moral restatements of the words I used: "abortion" and "gay marriage."
So, I can see why this becomes a serious political comment for you. I mentioned the two matters because they are consistent with an attitude toward gender. So, yeah, there's a moral presumption behind that, and Cain is a politician.
But this all feels like word-parsing to me. Let's go ahead and call it a serious effort to make a political comment behind the veil of pizza. Is it inappropriate? To some people.
I find it hilarious that pizza becomes a metaphor for manliness to someone with obvious problems related to gender bias. I've also found that people sometimes take my humor the wrong way.
I personally did not object to making a political comment. I specifically was addressing a pattern of behavior where you ambush political views into completely unconnected issues.
Let’s say there was a hard-right leaning publication. We will call it “Creative Working.” They have a columnist Sara Naplin who writes about issues concerning special needs children.
President Obama was on Jay Leno one night and made an extremely ill advised joke comparing his bowling skills to Special Olympics athletes.
If Naplin of Creative Working told the President to STFU, I’d say it’s undignified. Now personally, I consider a joke about special needs children much more provocative than repartee about manliness of pizza toppings, though the latter strikes a chord with you so we agree to disagree.
If she prefaced it with a rant from leftfield (or rightfield if you will) about how the President failed us on illegal aliens, income redistribution and what not, I’d say that was ambushing her political beliefs.
If these clandestine unrelated rants were an established pattern of behavior by Ms. Naplin and the Creative Working editors rationalized it as nothing more than “political commentary,” I’d be shocked on how that hypothetical publication would stay out of theoretical bankruptcy court.
I did forget the most important part. You go apeshit over a joke about pizza toppings, then conclude your response, "I've also found that people sometimes take my humor the wrong way."
Isn't it ironic, don't you think?
You're getting weird, Nick. Let go of the rag. I told you I understand why you found the comment significantly political -- your reduction of terms like "gay marriage" and "abortion" to moral issues that concern you. I even agreed to call the post political.
I'm not going to stop satirizing politicians in the food context, whether it's Obama and his burger/arugula complex or Herman Cain and his concerns about what pizza ingredients say about one's masculinity.(Btw, if a woman orders a pizza piled with meat, is she mannish?) Nor will I take silly terms like STFU seriously.
No, I don't think there's a great deal of irony in my response at all. I understand that you take a term like STFU seriously and find it undignified in this context. But I did not go apeshit over Herman's remark. I thought it was hilarious in its unconscious reiteration of his obvious gender bias, even though I seriously doubt he was being intentionally sexist.
Now, I need to let go of the rag myself and move on with my life. I am addressing issues like this in a post on my personal blog. I haven't had time to finish it yet, because I've been attending to the Sock-Puppet Commentariat here.
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