Tuesday, February 21, 2012
Wonk / Transit Beltline Eastside Trail construction will require Ponce de Leon closures
Posted by Thomas Wheatley @thomaswheatley on Tue, Feb 21, 2012 at 4:06 PM
- Christopher Martin
- The 2.5 mile trail, originally scheduled to open last summer, will link Piedmont Park and (eventually) DeKalb Avenue
- Atlanta Beltline Inc.
- 'Slope failure' behind Midtown Arts Cinema
- Atlanta Beltline Inc.
- Beltline bridge spanning Ponce de Leon Avenue
* Crews will also close Ralph McGill Boulevard for 30 days — most likely in March — to install a new bridge dedicated to the trail. Burke says residents on each side of the project will have access to Freedom Parkway and Boulevard, respectively, so any inconvenience should be minimal.
* The trail, for now, will stop at Irwin Street rather than DeKalb Avenue. Why? Beltline officials want to wait until a new Edgewood Avenue bridge is built, which could incorporate both Beltline's transit line and trail. The move could help connect the Beltline to the downtown streetcar. Once the bridge is built, Burke says, work crews will finish the trail to DeKalb Avenue. "It's not that we're abandoning this, but deferring it until an intelligent time."
* Crews dug up approximately 1,400 tons of contaminated soil along the proposed trail. All the soil, Burke says, was transported to licensed and regulated landfills. "Both are roughly in the 40- or 50-miles-away range. We work with [the state Environmental Protection Division], there's a format, you have to show them truck receipts and everything."
* Landscaping will be installed on one side of the trail. The future transit right-of-way will be preserved. "We don't want to put trees on the side and then have transit come through and impact them," he says. An example of the retaining walls and the mesh fencing that will appear along some parts of the project can be seen to the right.
* So what comes next? Davidson says Beltline officials will begin looking at adding connections to the street from the trail. Connections to Ponce, which will have an ADA accessible connection and possibly a staircase, will be paid for with a grant from the Atlanta Regional Commission. He says design work is also currently underway for the trail extension down to Reynoldstown and Glenwood Park. Officials are also looking at designing extensions on the Beltline's southwest segment along right-of-way that the project leases from Georgia Department of Transportation.
[Note: I've updated the post to correct an error about the location of Grinnell Lofts.]
Comments (35)
Showing 1-35 of 35
I think I owe some CL commenter a coke, but I can't remember who. ;)
Shame about the GDOT requirement for what basically amounts to a chainlink fence for a pedestrian bridge.
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Zed,
I asked Burke if the fence along the Ponce bridge will resemble the chain-link fences we see along so many interstate overpasses. He said that the decorative fence on top of the retaining wall (visible in the above and to the right) is what they'll use. He said that from far away it might not even be noticeable.
Thomas,
Do you have any more detail to provide about the SW segment or even the Southern segment, connecting SW to Reynoldstown? Thanks.
"Officials are also looking at designing extensions on the Beltline's southwest segment along right-of-way that the project leases from Georgia Department of Transportation."
Just to keep our expectations in check: I was at the February meeting where they announced that the trail's expected opening had been moved to this summer. I asked if this meant June, and got the response that June was impossible, as was July -- but that August might be a realistic prediction.
Assuming all that is true, I have to wonder at their initial promises of a 7-month build. They have had 21 months since the "groundbreaking" announcement in June 2010, and at least 15 months of active construction. And they've shortened the trail (temporarily) by 1/8th of its length. But they're reporting that they still have 6 months to go!? How is it that all of the work they've done only adds up to 1 successful month of their original prediction?
So as it stands now, when we vote on the T-SPLOST bill in July Atlanta Beltline will have failed to open what is essentially a glorified sidewalk with $5 million of ready money -- but will be asking us to vote to allot them in that tax half a billion dollars to build a transit system.
If I'm going to vote yes, I need them to speak with painfully candid disclosures about what they've done wrong and how they'll make sure that such mistakes don't happen again. This "Yes we've made mistakes, but let's move on" just isn't going to cut it.
And since Atlanta Beltline has never opened a single project on time (or anywhere close to on-time), I need them to tell me what happens if they haven't finished the transit components at the end of 10 years when the T-SPLOST tax expires.
In other news from the February meeting: They announced that the trail surface will be polished stone -- which I'm sure I'll enjoy looking at, but which I'm not so certain about biking on, especially after a rain.
TW: In what ways does "decorative" chain link fence differ from "run-of-the-mill" chain link fence?
"Shame about the GDOT requirement for what basically amounts to a chainlink fence for a pedestrian bridge."
well you really don't want some joker trying to off himself by jumping into ponce at rush hour
@cep,
Sorry for the delay. I'm sorry if I wasn't clearer in the post above. The extension that would link the Eastside trail to Reynoldstown and Glenwood Park is currently in the preliminary design phase. Design work along the SW segment includes deciding how the trail would look inside the Beltline corridor alongside the transit line.
I don't have any info about connecting the southwest segment to Reynoldstown, unfortunately. ABI still doesn't own the SE segment ROW.
@JoeInAtlanta,
Ethan Davidson, the Beltline spokesman, tells me the trail will be concrete, not polished stone. One side will be sandblasted to give the path a two-tone effect and to help distinguish between the two "lanes" of bike and pedestrian traffic.
@JoeInAtlanta,
You can see the "two-tone" effect in the recent renderings.
http://clatl.com/freshloaf/archives/2011/1…
Whether the trail will actually end up looking like that is another matter.
Thomas,
Thanks; I'm glad to learn that I misunderstood about the trail surface.
But ... I posed this same question (about the polished stone surface) on their Facebook page 4 days ago. It seems like this would have been an excellent opportunity for their brand-new communications coordinator to alert me as to my misunderstanding -- but instead, my question went unanswered.
This is the thrust of my complaint about Atlanta Beltline: They share information with their stakeholders (i.e., us) resentfully, if at all.
So, since I know ABI folks read this (even though they can't be bothered to respond), let me be absolutely clear yet again: The construction snafus are merely a disappointment. Rather, it is the lack of communication, not the construction delays, that make me angry.
I knew the April projection was unrealistic, given the glacial pace the people behind this project seem satisfied with. It sounds more like a logistical boondoggle with each empty promise. The crews seem to abandon the job for days after even mild rains. It could be apple/oranges, but I drive by a Ga. Highway 316 project daily that's overhauling two major intersections. Twice as much noticeable work has happened there than in the last month than the nearly two years since this exercise trail "broke ground." The bulldozers really cranked up on the Eastside Trail about a year ago. Embarrassingly little has happened since. At this pace, Atlanta's "green necklace" is literally a 60-year project.
Thanks for the info, Thomas. I do wish the SW and Eastern portions would be connected in the near future, or in the very least the ROW on the southern portion acquired and the tracks removed to allow a mountain biking trail.
Regarding the slow pace. If this was just a matter of paving over a railroad, ala the Silver Comet, then the pace would probably be very fast. I am not in the construction or urban planning fields, but I imagine that much of the time is spent getting permits, approval from the EPA, removing contaminated soil, getting more permits, doing environmental studies, removing lead paint, bribing public officials (I jest), etc. In other words, it is heavily regulated. Also, there is the all important aspect of buying up condos and flipping them for a loss with future education funds. That takes time.
Any word on *how* they will link the Reynoldstown portion to the rest of the EST? I would think it would have to be on roadways...correct?
I think I heard "a second tunnel west of krog street" in a dream, but I might just be talking out of my ass.
I understand this is a complex project involving logistical hoops I can't being to know. But all these "projected opening dates" and newfangled renderings are simply smokescreens to mollify the masses, a public that has been too complacent to really ask questions or apply any sort of pressure. Welp, there goes another summer without this grand amenity. Shucks. How can the mayor say with a straight face he'd like to see the Beltline complete in a decade? And Zed, you owe me $10.
This is no boondoggle. I go by most weekends on my bike to checkout progress, and they have been working the weekends I've been by. Have you seen how much rain we've had this winter? This makes delays. And also the layers of century's old, unforseen rail infastructure that had to be removed was aslo a delay. It will get done and we will all enjoy it. Stop bitching!
@jeffery, the trail portion through Reynoldstown will connect to Glenwood Park along the Beltline corridor. At a Beltline meeting in December I asked about the trail going north by Piedmont Park to Lindbergh. They said that would be 4-5 years, and after they finish the Reynoldstown extension.
One boondoggle at a time please. I believe the 'monorail' has dibs.
@ Jeffrey, zedsmith, ChrisInmanPark: Last I saw, there were still three options for "MARTA connectivity" (from page 2-10, figure 2-2 of chapter two of the "Environmental Impact Statement" here: http://beltline.org/BeltLineBasics/Transit…).
#1: a tunnel that cuts directly from the Beltline/Edgewood intersection, under Hulsey Yard, to Wylie Street, then going east along Wylie to connect with the rest of the Beltline corridor.
#2: Heads east on Edgewood to the Inman Park MARTA station, then crosses Dekalb Ave. (elevated? tunnel? who knows) before turning around to head southwest on Seaboard/Walthall/Boulevard Drive/Wylie to connect with the Beltline corridor
#3: Heads west on Edgewood, connecting with the future downtown Streetcar (presumably this east-west line would replace the planned Irwin Street east-west connection), before heading south on Hilliard, crossing Dekalb Ave (elevated/tunnel), continuing on Grant, then heading east on Memorial to connect with the Beltline corridor.
I am quite entertained by the ABI working with NPUs and trucking companies to mitigate the traffic disaster of closing Ponce... Maybe if they released details on the traffic studies about how much traffic peels off of Monroe to head East on Ponce during 5pm rushhour, they'd realize the folks they need to be in communication with live in DeKalb and Gwinnett and Rockdale...
Their road closures signs need to go up on the GaDOT boards to catch folks trying to "cut the corner" of I-20 and the Connector~ there are times when easily 1/3 of the traffic i'm sitting in heading east on Ponce at 5pm is non-Fulton, and realistically is Gwinnett.
All that traffic looking to go elsewhere to get whereever is going to make life an abject misery for intowners in a 1mile swath from Ponce. I'd hate to live in Va-Hi on those weekends...
@ChrisInmanPark: "layers of century's old, unforseen rail infastructure"
What in the name of common sense could be "unforeseen" about a century-old rail infrastructure underneath a century-old railroad?
I'm sure Napoleon groused about the "unforeseen Russian winter" and the "unforeseen British forces at Waterloo". Just because people make excuses doesn't mean that we have to believe them.
And I stand by my earlier question:
Atlanta Beltline promised us a 7-month construction schedule. In part, their faith in a 7-month construction cycle was how they justified the late start after their announcement in June 2010 that the trail would be open "in one year".
But now, they tell us that completion is still about 6 months away.
7 - 6 = 1
So how does the Beltline pretend that what we see now is what we would have seen after 1 month had there been no "unforeseen rail infrastructure" to dig up?
(And Zed, I'll bet you $10 that ABI will never answer this question in any public forum in which I have placed it. You interested in that action to cover your loss to @fiasco? Hell, it would be worth losing $10 just to have them -- FINALLY -- own up to some responsibility for communication to the public about their inaccurate predictions and process failures.)
Joe, I agree the communication is terrible. It really, truly is. I can't get them to respond to my emails either. But, bringing this corridor to accommodate the trail and transit is more than just a "glorified sidewalk" that you've characterized it as.
They're doing as much up-front work as possible so minimize delays during construction of the transit. They're uprooting, consolidating, and burying utilities, and sometimes, as mentioned in the article, they have no idea what they'll uncover. Utility work is often one of the most time-consuming portions of any project, because you really don't know what you'll find. And once you unearth these unknown surprises, you have to figure out its purpose and how to address it. I can only imagine what they've unearthed in a century old rail corridor that's been abandoned for decades. The existing utility maps were probably all completely wrong, and anyone in construction will tell you this is almost always the case. Good record-keeping from the past is an exception, not the norm.
Again, I agree the communication is bogus. And they're initial timeline was impossible from the beginning. Hopefully next time they quote how long it will take to do something they'll build in some contingency time so that a) we won't be surprised if they take longer than they'd like to complete something and b) they'll pleasantly surprise us with an "early" completion date if everything goes well.
Glad I live near the new Irwin St. endpoint. Me and my longboard are aching to get on that trail ASAP.
@NickS: I think we're on the same page but just to be clear, I'm not saying that that the hardships of building in this situation (crumbling and forgotten infrastructure, old and inaccurate maps, etc.) don't exist. Rather, what I'm saying is that Atlanta Beltline could not possibly have been unaware of those things, and how they would affect the timeline, when they started this process.
At that point they had already started or completed a short trail connection in southwest Atlanta and two significant new parks. In each of those, they had run into delays because of these same issues. And yet they speculated that THIS trail -- in what they knew to be a harder environment -- would be finished in a timeline that even untrained observers (such as myself) knew to be utterly impossible. This is not simple optimism -- at best, it's incompetence; at worst, it's lies.
Also, are you certain that they are "doing as much up-front work as possible so minimize delays during construction of the transit"?
At the February meeting, they explicitly said they were NOT building retaining walls that would be required by the transit component. This suggests to me that there's going to be a whole lot more underground (with all of those completely "unforeseeable" problems) during transit construction.
I think you're misremembering, Joe. In some places, additional retaining walls for transit not at grade with the trail will be called for, but i think most transit on the east side is going to be at grade with the trail.
I'm not saying they need retaining walls for the whole transit connection. I'm just saying that they announced that the retaining walls currently under construction were for the path component -- and that the retaining walls for transit (where they are needed) would come when that component was under construction.
At least their preparing the route for future transit rather than have another crew come back in 5 years and tear up trees and trails. At least ABI has the hindsight to prepare for future transit, now if only GDOT could do the same.
@ Pfeif - "well you really don't want some joker trying to off himself by jumping into ponce at rush hour"
That would be that 'joker's' problem, and a small stretch of Ponce's temporary problem, if he did. There's no reason to deprive the rest of the non-suicidal city of what could be a beautiful piece of architecture, because someone "might" jump off of it.
It really is a shame that the visage of the Beltline at such a heavily trafficked area is going to be a chain-link fence. Way to go Atlanta...way to go...
"That would be that 'joker's' problem, and a small stretch of Ponce's temporary problem, if he did. There's no reason to deprive the rest of the non-suicidal city of what could be a beautiful piece of architecture, because someone "might" jump off of it."
eh, i see the point of the regulation. you generally don't want flowing traffic to come to a sudden halt, bad things might happen
note that suicides can be extrapolated to any falling item
here's a question... how is the Highland Ave. bridge that crosses over Freedom Pkwy not required to have that terrible chain link fencing like the bridge over Ponce will have?
Ponce is a US Hwy while Freedom Pkwy is a State Route. Falls under a separate set of rules.
Although, I like the crazy person density reasoning better!
I'd be very interested in hearing what qualifies a road for a mesh pedestrian fence... especially considering Ponce and Freedom are very similar roads regarding traffic and speed limits.
I almost feel like the crazy people density theory probably makes way more sense than whatever government mandates require the fence...
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